Ned's Last Stand: When would it happen?

[brewizard]

NASCAR Ned keeps saying the Brewers aren't firing on all cylinders. Well, that's for sure. But looking at the stats some others have posted lately means the Brewers aren't really firing on any cylinders.

 

If you had an expensive sports car, which had its own mechanic, and every day you took the car out for a drive, and every day it breaks down, and every day, the mechanic just says "it's not firing on all cylinders," wouldn't you eventually just fire the mechanic?

[Bucky Rules]

From what I've seen of Melvin and Attanasio, they're not nearly as reactionary as the crowd here in this thread. Yost will get the vast majority of this season (until September at least, I would guess). If we revert to having a sub .500 record, he probably won't be back. If we finish with a winning record, but don't make the playoffs, I'd say it's about 70/30 he stays. If we make the playoffs, obviously he's back.

Have you ever listened to his press conferences after the game? They sound like the most painful 15 minutes of your life. How can the players be loose under this guy?

Why is it that so many people believe that his demeanor in press conferences is the same as the way he is around the team? So the guy hates doing the press conferences. I'd get tired of hearing stupid questions day after day. Or even good questions, if they're the same questions day after day. It has nothing to do with how he acts/reacts to people outside of that setting. So, why choose the pressers as your basis for his demeanor? Why not his pre-game interviews with Uecker, where he's completely at ease and loose? It makes no sense to make that type of judgment.

If he has lost the respect of the team, if they no longer want him around, then I would be on board with firing him tomorrow. I would think DM would have a reading on that. But, that has generally been one of Ned's strengths. If that's no longer the case, I would be on board with the rest of the Ned-haters in saying he should go. I don't believe that's the case. But, I've been wrong before... once.

[Oldcity]

Isn't it time to stop talking about Yo? And using it as an excuse for Ned? If the time hasn't come yet, I sure hope it comes soon cause I'm sick of hearing about it.

 

I don't think it's time to stop talking about it, because it's the reason the Brewers are now a long shot for the playoffs. That isn't Ned's fault. I'd still like to see Yost fired mainly due to last year more than anything he's done (or hasn't had a chance to do) this season. I don't blame him for the hitting woes, but like FTJ said, I wouldn't be upset if he was fired as a result.

[bigredrobbo]

I think/hope it's sooner rather than latter as I have this sneaking suspicion that Yost garners little respect in the clubhouse among many players and coaches. While I'm currently in a self-imposed Brewers exile for a while, I admit I check in a few times a day with the faint hope of seeing this thread title:

 

"[Designated Yost Thread] Is Yost stifling this team? EDIT: Yost Fired!"

 

Based on what, exactly? If anything, that's the MAIN reason that the players and coaches will cite when asked. That they respect Yost for not throwing them under the bus like, say, Ozzie Guillen does. The younger players especially have mentioned this on numerous occasions.

 

But, hey, don't let the facts stand in the way of the point you'd like to prove and the result you'd like to happen.

 

Self-imposed exiles are for quitters!

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

 

[Fatter than Joey]

So the guy hates doing the press conferences. I'd get tired of hearing stupid questions day after day. Or even good questions, if they're the same questions day after day.

 

Welcome to my board meetings. You have summarized just about every company meeting I have been to for the last 12 years. However, I get paid to answer these questions patiently and with a smile on my face so I do -- It's Ned's job, and he should be able to answer 15 minutes of questions professionally -- and I think one really stupid thing that he has done over the last 6 years is that he hasn't endeared himself to the fanbase.

 

I don't blame him for the hitting woes, but like FTJ said, I wouldn't be upset if he was fired as a result.

 

I agree Stevo, that losing Yo was a huge blast to the sac. At the same time there comes a point though when you have to frame the injury in its proper perspective -- Yo probably doesn't help us win many games if we keep scoring 2 runs in 2 days to the Marlins -- If we win 87 games and the cubs win 88 -- I think losing Yo cost us, however if we are 5-10 games out -- Yo only gets us closer

 

Another point I would like to make, Ennder keeps saying 1 out of 3 pitchers goes on the DL each year -- assuming that is true, losing Yo has to be normalized in some way against other teams losses as well. Here is where a manager makes his money -- dealing with injuries. If a team's top 8 position players and top 5 starters never had injuries and played in 162 games, there probably is not a lot separating Yost and the sharpest guy on BF.net from managing the team. An MLB manager should be able to roll with some punches and deal with players getting hurt or flaming out -- it's probably why they call them a "manager" and not a "lineup card-filler-outer guy"

 

It would be like a manager of a restaurant shutting down the grill because their top chef got sick.

[Fatter than Joey]

But, hey, don't let the facts stand in the way of the point you'd like to prove and the result you'd like to happen.

 

Yost has thrown Hardy and Capuano under the bus, just to name a couple.

[Tbadder]

Agreed Skaalen is meat. It's over for him. Someone's gonna take the blame.

 

You know, for the first time I'm thinking Melvin might be in trouble. I've always supported the guy, but it's looking like he's reached his peak. Maybe Jack Z. needs a shot.

 

I also agree that it's time for a tough guy approach. It's time to start demanding production. I hate Earl Weaver baseball--wait and wait and wait. There's got to be a more wholistic approach. Where's the kangaroo court? They should be fining themselves for not hitting to the right side, etc.

[RU Rah Rah]

But, hey, don't let the facts stand in the way of the point you'd like to prove and the result you'd like to happen.

 

Yost has thrown Hardy and Capuano under the bus, just to name a couple.

Yeah, J.J. was the first thing that popped into my head when I read that sentence.

 

[BrewCrewForever]

Considering we have already lost 5 in a row and we still have one game left in Florida and then we have St. Louis, LA and Boston. I would say if those go as bad as I think they will Yost will be gone by May 19th.

[aracko]

I just keep hearing a phil collins / Genesis song in my head.

[bigredrobbo]

I just keep hearing a phil collins / Genesis song in my head.

 

I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)?

[Fear The Chorizo]

As currently built, the Brewers are supposed to be a team that can win alot of 8-6 ballgames - get decent starting pitching, above-average relief, and hope to bludgeon teams to death with the bats...since the bats have slumped basically the entire season so far, the pitching staff has been under increased strain and it's really starting to show. Before the season started, I don't think anyone had the Brewers pegged as a top 5 MLB pitching staff. If this team doesn't score a ton of runs, there's really no chance they can win consistently...especially after Gallardo went down.

 

This team does nothing well right now - nobody really brings it up anymore, but I think the looming contract/arbitration status of basically the entire core of young position players has been a significant distraction to this young team. Guys like Hardy, Hart, Fielder, Braun, and Weeks have at least had discussions about pre-arby contract extensions, or are entering the arbitration process after this year. I don't care how talented and even-keeled a young player is, when dollar signs start flashing around and the pressure to play for pay finds its way into their heads for the first time, it's tough to block it out and just go perform.

 

I'm sick of listening to Yost continue to argue that it's early, and "we're going to hit, and get on a nice roll"...EVERY team goes through a 2-3 week stretch where they tear the cover off the ball and play great - it's almost impossible not to have a hot streak over the course of 162 games. It's how the team performs when they're not playing great that determines how good their record will be - Yost seems to refuse to accept blame/criticism and insists on 'riding it out' and waiting for the players to perform. He has a knack for doing the same thing and expecting different results. Just because he was a good 3rd base coach under a great manager in Bobby Cox doesn't mean he automatically becomes a know-it-all manager who doesn't have to answer his critics.

 

I for one am sick of his demeanor and approach to managing this team, and think it's time for some new direction for this roster. Count me in on hoping that Melvin forgets to give Yost his plane ticket back from Miami and gives it to Simba for his carryon

[Pedro]

Based on what, exactly? If anything, that's the MAIN reason that the players and coaches will cite when asked. That they respect Yost for not throwing them under the bus like, say, Ozzie Guillen does. The younger players especially have mentioned this on numerous occasions.

 

But, hey, don't let the facts stand in the way of the point you'd like to prove and the result you'd like to happen.

They might respect him for not throwing them under the bus to the media and public, I don't really recall any player or coach specific quotes regarding that topic. I will agree Yost has been viewed as a "players manager," whatever that may mean to different people. My suspicion is sneaking based on more than just generic quotes players give to the press; I think last year's dugout blowup and the numerous coaching changes are clues to a deeper disturbance in the Force.

 

[jhart05]

I just keep hearing a phil collins / Genesis song in my head.

 

I feel bad for you.

 

(But I'm not a Collins/Genesis fan http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif)

[joepepsi]

I think he has until June 15th. If the offense picks up before that his job is safe. If not, and he's fired, the season will essentially be over and you can expect a revamping of the team over the winter.

[jazzytrav]

But, hey, don't let the facts stand in the way of the point you'd like to prove and the result you'd like to happen.

 

Yost has thrown Hardy and Capuano under the bus, just to name a couple.

Has anyone ever heard Ned take the blame for anything? His press conferences consist of blaming his own players or praising the other teams players.

[brewmann04]

the end of May if this team is not righted by then Ned needs to be fired

[MickeyDavis]

The decision to fire Yost is only half of the equation. The other half is his replacement. Certainly a mid season replacement means someone on the current staff and virtually everyone assumes it will be Simmons. And that's probably right. But Simmons has zero managerial experience at any level and had never even coached anywhere before this year. He has been in the front office and was the Pirates GM for awhile with little success.

 

Maybe Yost has burned out the team to the point that any replacement would be an improvement. I sure wish we'd have a manager with experience getting a team to the playoffs. But the time to make that move was the offseason.

[nate82]

The decision to fire Yost is only half of the equation. The other half is his replacement. Certainly a mid season replacement means someone on the current staff and virtually everyone assumes it will be Simmons. And that's probably right. But Simmons has zero managerial experience at any level and had never even coached anywhere before this year. He has been in the front office and was the Pirates GM for awhile with little success.

I don't see many managers that will be available that will have that kind of experience available. Don Mattingly could be a candidate for the managers job. This probably depends on if he goes back to the Yankees or not. Other than him I don't see that many other viable options.

 

[MickeyDavis]

Agreed. In season you pretty much have to pick from your current staff. I'd still like to see an experienced, winning manager in here after this season. It will cost some money but well worth it, IMO.

[joepepsi]

Agreed. In season you pretty much have to pick from your current staff.

Simmons will probably get the job, but this is why I generally oppose mid season firings. It essentially throws the season out the window. Even if the Brewers are as many as 10 games under .500 in mid June are you really ready to concede the last 100 games?

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Question I have for everybody. Isn't Melvin in trouble too? He put this underperforming team together. He hired Yost. He extended Yost. He hired Skaalen. He hired Maddux. He signed Suppan. He signed Gagne. He signed Turnbow to a multi year deal.

 

I think the main reason we still have Yost is that Melvin can buy himself at least one more season by not firing Ned mid-season. FtJ touched on a lot of things I was going to say in #48. I think Melvin has put himself in the position where he now has a firing of Yost in his back pocket, should things come down to Doug's own job security. With that said, I think that means a firing of Yost (if it were to happen) would come later rather than sooner. That way, Melvin could point to Ned's negative impact... and highlight the new manager's success, or cite a small timeframe that the new mgr. 'needs to be given another year for things to mesh well.'

[MickeyDavis]

That's a good point. If Melvin waits until after the season he can blame the whole thing on Yost, hire a new manager, and keep his job another year. If he fires Yost in May and we don't improve, he could be gone as well.

 

But Attanasio could get an itchy trigger finger and tell Doug that Nascar has to go.

[Never Outhustled]

Why is it that so many people believe that his demeanor in press conferences is the same as the way he is around the team?

Because Tony Graffino told us it was after he got in a fight with Ned in the dugout last year. The fight started because Graf told Ned to stop riding Hardy. Graf was reportedly annoyed that Ned consistently rode a number of the young players.

[naivin]

To suggest Melvin is keeping Yost around for selfish reasons doesn't really add up to me. If Attanasio made a move on Melvin, he would have a job offer the next day. There is an awful lot of bad baseball teams out there (and its starting to look like there may be one right here in Milwaukee.).

 

That said, I touched on this yesterday...given that this is not 2 or 3 years of Yost we are talking about, but rather his 6th season, shouldn't the anger generated by dissatisfaction with Yost really be directed at Melvin? If Yost is really as bad as so many believe, and have believed for a few years now, Doug Melvin's qualifications as a GM necessarily must be called into question.