Brewers are well positioned for huge haul in July

[DrWood]

According to the Power 50, we've got 2 guys in our top 25 who are in AAA at the moment, Iribarren and Pena, neither of whom are going to excite a lot of other teams.

 

 

 

A prospect doesn't have to be in AAA to be valuable.

[Roscoe Chill]

As for the Prince and Red Sox comment, that's overplayed. This organization is put together in a manner in which they'll still be successful while Prince is with the Red Sox if that even happens(which I happen to doubt).

Red Sox, Yankees, Rangers...does it matter? You may very well be right that the organization will be fine after Fielder leaves. To me, they don't have much of a choice in their attitude towards it, because he's gone first chance he gets. But that doesn't mean that the Brewers best chance in the next 20 years isn't these next few years with Fielder in the fold. Or maybe a better way to put it, is the next few years with both Fielder and Braun. It'd be a shame to look forward to this group of young, talented guys for so long and have them miss out on the playoffs because they can't get the pitching thing right wouldn't it? Regardless of how "successful" they are after Fielder leaves. I have successful in quotes because, quite frankly, this team hasn't been successful in a long time. I don't care if they finally got a winning record last year (barely).

[GAME05]

i'm not saying a prospect needs to be in AAA to be valuable, but it certainly helps his value, and you end up having to give up more prospects if they're a collection of A and AA players than AAA guys, is what i meant.

 

If i were thinking Gamel could stick at 3B, then i'd give him more value than LaPorta, but the jury's out on that one. though i don't really see how Gamel is closer to being ready when he's still making the errors at 3B.

 

really, i guess i don't see a giant difference in either player to make one more valuable than the other. although i'd probably give LaPorta the bump because he projects more power than Gamel. i used to be of the opinion to keep LaPorta and trade Gamel, but now i just don't want to see either go, even if it means no replacement pitcher for this season.

 

Gamel and LaPorta are both about the same age.

Gamel: .355 BA, 5 HR, 76 TB, 1.037 OPS

LaPorta: .330 BA, 9 HR, 74 TB, 1.128 OPS

[colbyjack]

There are a couple of threads that this could fit, but I would like to throw out Javier Vazquez of the Chicago White Sox as a possibility. White Sox GM has a history of making big deals for prospects, but to and from the South side of Chicago. Most notably the package he gave up for Nick Swisher, but he's dealt Gio Gonzalez in three deals (once to get Thome, once in return for Freddy Garcia, and as part of the Swisher deal). He also dealt Brandon McCarthy for a package highlighted by John Danks.

 

The White Sox are currently slumping pretty bad after a pretty good start. The pitching is not the problem, with Buerhle, Danks, Floyd, Vazquez and Contreras all pitching well. Their system is a lot more rich with arms than it is bats, and if the White Sox continue to slide I would not be surprised at all to see them deal one of their better yet pricier arms to get some young talent in return, with an emphasis on bats (I know for a fact that they want to get a big college bat with their first-round pick).

 

That could make them a perfect fit for the Brewers, with a package highlighted by Mat Gamel, who as noted by others in this conversation may be an extra piece to the Brewers puzzle. I don't see the Brewers dealing LaPorta, and given Vazquez' salary ($11.5 M the next three years), the asking price might not even be as rich as some of the proposals it would take to get someone like Tim Lincecum, who I even question if he's available.

 

Given the White Sox' depth of starting pitching at the upper levels, I think a trade of Gamel and someone like Rob Bryson or R.J. Seidel might be enough to acquire Vazquez if the Brewers are open to swallowing his salary, which they might be considering Sheets will in theory be off the books next year. Again, this is contingent on the White Sox continuing to slide, and even then they're still in 2nd place as of today, although not by much, but such a deal would fit Ken Williams recent trading history.

 

Overall, I agree with the overall premise in that the Brewers are in good position to make some deals between now and the trading deadline. As an aside, I listened to Tom Haudricourt on Homer's show this afternoon, and Tom H noted that Mark Attanasio might be willing to open the purse sooner rather than later rather than concede the season so early in the year. I think everyone believes the bats will come around eventually, but the pitching needs to be addressed.

[dadofandrew]

Too long for Doug to consider Vazquez. 3 years is a serious injury, rehab, and then another 1.5 years.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Roscoe Chill]

Javier Vazquez would be an ideal addition colbyjack. And not only for the rest of this season. That's the type of trade that shows that the team is trying to win now, but not necessarily mortgaging the future to do so. In fact, it's a smart way to get a replacement for Sheets. I know, I know, Sheets (when healthy) is a lot better than Vazquez. But Vazquez isn't chopped liver.

[Roscoe Chill]

Except Al, Vazquez doesn't seem to have an injury history like ALL pitchers have I'm told. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[colbyjack]

Too long for Doug to consider Vazquez. 3 years is a serious injury, rehab, and then another 1.5 years.

 

Have you looked at Vazquez' career numbers? The guy is amazingly durable. Some may say that means he's all the more likely to suffer an injury, but I would contend that he's one of those rare guys (like Livan Hernandez) that can and will continue to do what he does his entire his career...and he's still in his low-30s, so it's not like he's nearing the end of the road anytime soon. In addition to his innings pitches and overall appearances, all of his peripheral numbers from year-to-year have been amazingly consistent.

 

The only real gripe you can find about Vazquez is that he's HR prone. Normally I would worry about that, but since he's pitched well in the AL the past few years I don't see why his numbers would be any different pitching in the NL.

 

And because of that you could even make an argument that he's more valuable than Ben Sheets.

[dadofandrew]

Vazquez is a nice pitcher, I just don't see them going after a guy with 3y left on his deal, as there will likely be plenty of 2 month rentals and 1 year, 2 month guys.

[DrWood]

I wouldn't mind a deal to get Vasquez. I have a plan to get him relatively cheaply. Record someone impersonating Vasquez's voice saying bad things about Ozzie, then play the recording to Ozzie. That should get him on the list for removal. Worst case scenario? Ozzie is fired and we hire him to replace Yost. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Roscoe Chill]

Vazquez is a nice pitcher, I just don't see them going after a guy with 3y left on his deal, as there will likely be plenty of 2 month rentals and 1 year, 2 month guys.

 

Yeah, but who? And again, is having Vazquez for two more years at $11.5M per really a bad thing? I think everyone here would say that when (if) Sheets leaves after this season, they need to "replace" him. I guess I just don't see these great options that will be out there in the free agent market at least. Sabathia or Penny? Too expensive I would guess. Garland? Maybe. Lowe? I like him, but if you're concerned about Vazquez's age, then that wouldn't make sense.

[Oldcity]

Vazquez is a nice pitcher, I just don't see them going after a guy with 3y left on his deal, as there will likely be plenty of 2 month rentals and 1 year, 2 month guys.

I'd actually prefer someone with multiple years, because I don't like the idea of giving up good prospects for a rental.

 

[Roscoe Chill]

I'd actually prefer someone with multiple years, because I don't like the idea of giving up good prospects for a rental.

Exactly. It's killing two birds with one stone. I'd prefer a deal like this to happen sooner though, so if it doesn't work and the team falls out of it, at least they tried, and then they can sell some pieces too. And again, you still have Vazquez next year.

[TooLiveBrew]

In 2006 we really didn't have much of a shot given our injuries, yet we went out and got Cordero which was a huge need for us at the time.

 

Wasn't this more due to Carlos Lee turning down our low offer than going out & getting a closer?

[Fatter than Joey]

Wasn't this more due to Carlos Lee turning down our low offer than going out & getting a closer?

 

Perhaps -- we could have just tried to win with Lee though in 2006, we needed a closer badly.

[mothershipconnection]

I'd gladly take Vazquez and his contract over Suppan. The deal's actually not that bad, especially if you're confident he won't return to the form of that 3-year slide that started when he went to the Yankees.

[dadofandrew]

His career road ERA is 4.51, and at 32, he won't be expected to be better or healthier. Is that worth $11.5M? I'd say maybe for one year, but again, that's a lot of risk over 3 seasons.

[pogokat]

Al---

 

vazquez had a 3.74 with a 1.14 whip last year and 213 k's in 16 innings...this year he's got 46 k's in 46 innings with a 3.3 era and a 1.20 whip...he's thrown 200 innings 6 of the last 7 years (and the 7th he threw 198)

 

quote his career line all you want, but at the moment he's posssibly the best pitcher in the al..if we can get him for three years at 11.5 million we'd be insane not to..

 

in fact, i think most everyone is undervaluing him here...except colby, who's beeen talking about getting him since the 90's

[Roscoe Chill]

Hey man, I'm saying it'd be a great move pogokat!

 

Is anyone worth $11.5 M Al? That's just the going rate. Picking up a guy at that price versus a lesser guy at $13 million just makes perfect sense to me, because prices are just going to go up.

 

And it's not 3 years...it's already almost 2.75 and going down every day.

[colbyjack]

Thanks for remembering pogo http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

 

Another guy I have been a big fan of for several years now is Brian Fuentes, who I wanted to see the Brewers acquire this past offseason to fill their closer role before Gagne was acquired, and he's still a guy I'd love to see the Brewers target. One thing I have always loved about Vazquez is his consistency, with the exception of the years he spent with the Yankees as someone else already pointed out. Fuentes is another guy who has been amazingly consistent in a short relief role, and he could be available for a variety of reasons:

 

1. He already lost the closer role to Manny Corpas.

2. He lost in arby this past offseason, which never endears a player to his team, coupled with the first point.

3. He's a FA at the end of the year.

4. The Rockies have Casey Weathers, who they took 8th overall last year, pitching well at AA (and he could move fast).

5. The Rockies suck.

 

While Gagne has been struggling, and while I have enjoyed the flexibility the current bullpen has offered, I think a legit set-up man and fill-in closer like Fuentes, coupled with a starter, could really give the team an overall boost, hoping of course the bats start to figure it out.

 

Chad Cordero is another option with Jon Rauch firmly entrenched with the Nationals (he received a contract extension this offseason while avoiding arby). That might be a little more tricky, as acquiring more of a true closer may present some ego issues, as I'm not suggesting the team rids themselves of Gagne (yet), just looking for ways to complement the team, which I still believe has the talent to play a lot better than how they are.

[pogokat]

Fuentes is the closer again in colorado because corpas is worse than gagne...and cordero is out with a sketchy arm problem for another 6 weeks...

 

i want a starter and a different 3b/ss

[brewerinvegas]

One thing to keep in mind is that as a player in the middle of a multi-year contract, Vazquez could demand a trade after the season if he is traded. Which is exactly how he ended up with the White Sox in the first place.

[hauser42]

Escobar is a much weaker bat than Hardy I dont get all the love for him taking over at SS. This kid is not the second coming of Ozzie Smith. Escobar needs to be moved in a trade before the rest of the majors figures out he cannot hit.

[Gopher74]

Escobar is a much weaker bat than Hardy I dont get all the love for him taking over at SS. This kid is not the second coming of Ozzie Smith. Escobar needs to be moved in a trade before the rest of the majors figures out he cannot hit.

He's not Ozzie Smith? Is that the standard to which he should be measured? In that case, why is JJ Hardy up? He's most certainly not Ozzie Smith either. He's the greatest defensive shortstop of all time.

 

But here's the thing, fine, you don't believe that all the scouts and everyone who's high on Escobar is right. I'm guessing that you haven't watched him play much, so you're basing this off of what? His minor league stats when he's been the youngest player or one of the youngest players in the league each year. And even then, last year he had a very good season in Single A, but Escobar has a lot of projectability to him. He's got a big frame and a nice swing. He's got a lot of room to add some power. Not Hardy power most likely(then again, we're still trying to figure out what the means) but good gap power, and the power to hit 10-15 HR's a year.

 

So the point is, what reason could there possibly be for just dumping a guy simply to dump him at this point in time? I mean, what's the risk? You don't win quite as many games in the minors? So what? But if you move him and turns into the player that most feel he will, then we've just given a great young player away for absolutely no reason.

 

I see no reason to trade a player who at the absolute worst is a Gold Glove caliber defensive Shortstop and who at best is a GG caliber SS who can hit .285/.335 with 30 DBL's and 10-15 HR's a year. And who will allow us to let Hardy leave and invest our resources into players who don't have such a capable backup.

 

 

One thing to keep in mind is that as a player in the middle of a multi-year contract, Vazquez could demand a trade after the season if he is traded. Which is exactly how he ended up with the White Sox in the first place.

So what player couldn't? Not to mention he can demand all he wants, but that doesn't mean he's going to get it. The possibility for a player demanding a trade is an bad reason to pass on a player.

 

In fact, I think the logic that he's in a multi-year deal means that he's got more leverage would actually be just the opposite. He'd have less leverage as he'd have no recourse.

 

Anyway, I really don't why we should take that into consideration either way.

 

 

(combined consecutive posts -1992)

[jjfanec]

I like Escobar and think he has potential but his OBP is terrible. His minor league OBP is .316, which makes his average of .280 much less impressive. Once he can walk more than I think he can project better as a major league starter.