No choice now... (Sheets extension)

[TooLiveBrew]

Whether or not he is capable is a question that cannot be answered until he actually does so.

 

I agree, which is why your comment:

 

Its obvious by now that Melvin doesnt know how to evaluate pitching correctly

 

bugs me so much. It's not obvious in any way that Melvin is anything worse than below-avg., or anything better than above-avg. when it comes to evaluating & assembling his pitching staff. Your response usually includes something about Burkett being a #1 SP, yet you chose to omit several other relevant factors which would contradict the 'he has no clue' argument.

 

I don't disagree that Sheets is a big factor this offseason, but I think that once again, it's going to come down to simple economics (unless Ben somehow feels obligated to the Brewers) like it did with Carlos Lee. Other franchises can take the risk of going 5 or 6 years with Sheets... even if the Brewers can match or exceed the AAV, Sheets would be either loyal or foolish to accept a 4-year deal when he'll have 5 & 6-yr. deals extended to him, too.

[MickeyDavis]

even if the Brewers can match or exceed the AAV, Sheets would be either loyal or foolish to accept a 4-year deal when he'll have 5 & 6-yr. deals extended to him, too.

Unfortunately that's true. I can't see Sheets leaving $30+ million on the table.

 

[bklynbrewcrew]

We should have made an effort to extend Sheets either in the offseason or during spring training. The closer he gets to free agency the less chance we have of keeping him. Being proactive with an ace like Sheets was the way to go yet Melvin decided to let Sheets play it out in all likelihood costing us any shot of keeping him beyond this season.

[MickeyDavis]

His last extension was done in spring training. I guess I can see the wait and see approach, this next contract is going to be for more than the last one.

[PeaveyFury]

Being proactive with an ace like Sheets was the way to go yet Melvin decided to let Sheets play it out in all likelihood costing us any shot of keeping him beyond this season.

 

Come on now, let's not pretend that Sheets is without some serious issues- and if Sheets is determined to test the market this time around (which we have no way of knowing), it is probably in the team's best interest to see where we are in mid-July before deciding what needs to be done. Heck, this thread is pretty evenly split as to thoughts about re-signing Sheets, so to say that there was one specific "way to go" about this situation is completely unfair.

[nate82]

If we are out of it by the trading deadline then we trade Sheets. I would love to have Sheets sign with us but at what cost? Do you sign Sheets over signing players like Hart and Weeks?

 

These are tough questions I believe we could sign Sheets and probably both Weeks and Hart to extensions. That leaves Hardy and Prince on the outside. Not to go to far off topic but what we do with Sheets will set the table for the signings of the rest of the younger players.

 

I would trade Sheets and get a couple of prospects for him. If the Yankees start surging and it looks like Hughes and Kennedy are struggling with the Yankees still I could see them shipping one or both for a proven veteran pitcher. Maybe we can send Sheets for Hughes, Kennedy and a low level prospect.

 

This also frees up money to go out and sign a free agent. Maybe take a stab at Sabathia I doubt we could get him though we would probably end up over paying for Oliver Perez which wouldn't be a bad signing. I wouldn't mind having a starting rotation of Gallardo, Perez, Hughes, Kennedy, Parra. That would put Suppan and Villa in the bullpen lessening the losses of Mota and Torres from the bullpen.

[TooLiveBrew]

Maybe we can send Sheets for Hughes, Kennedy and a low level prospect.

 

I mean this with all due respect... that deal ain't happening. The Yanks are far too high on both of those guys to include them in a single deal.

[nate82]

I mean this with all due respect... that deal ain't happening. The Yanks are far too high on both of those guys to include them in a single deal.

To a point they are high on both. Hank lost out on Santana and if he thinks that getting a pitcher like a Ben Sheets will help them win the World Series then those two will be gone. I always thought that thing that was holding up the Santana trade to the Yankees was the Twins wanting all three of the Yankees young guys and Melky. I believe the Yankees were willing to part with Hughes, Kennedy, and Melky for Santana but not Chamberlain at all.

 

I believe we could get Hughes and Kennedy for Sheets if the Yankees become desperate actually it would be Hank becoming desperate more so than the Yankees front office becoming desperate. I doubt Hank will listen for a second time.

[TooLiveBrew]

To a point they are high on both. Hank lost out on Santana and if he thinks that getting a pitcher like a Ben Sheets will help them win the World Series then those two will be gone.

 

I strongly disagree. Cashman has more power now than he has ever had, and trading off young players for older vets has never been his desire. He's just finally been allowed to run the team the way he sees fit. Hank is even more of a bag of hot air than his father, since George would follow crazy talk with crazy action. At least Cashman knows his hand won't be forced much if at all this way any longer.

 

I just don't think this Steinbrenner has the kind of control you're describing. When Papa Stein eases up on Cashman (2007), you know the times have changed in NY.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I would seriously give Sheets anything right now IF he pitches a full healthy season. I rather spend money on an ace than a DH like Prince Fielder on an NL team.

[BrewCrewForever]

I would seriously give Sheets anything right now IF he pitches a full healthy season. I rather spend money on an ace than a DH like Prince Fielder on an NL team.

No dount about it, if he makes all of his starts the rest of this season we should throw whatever he wants at him for a 3 or 4 year deal. I figure if he does make the rest of his scheduled starts he wins 18-20 games easy. In this season where we have seen how important starting pitching is it just seems to make3 sense to resign an ace like Sheets.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

If Attanasio is talking about opening his pocket book for an SP in the open market, why wouldn't he just sign his own ace assuming Sheets would come back to Milwaukee and not be a jerk and go to the evil empire of NY.

[1992casey]

Mark's been talking about finding a starting pitcher as soon as he can. I don't believe he's said a thing about the off-season.

[TooLiveBrew]

Do you think Carlos Lee is a jerk for taking two more full seasons of guaranteed money than the Brewers could offer? Would Sheets be a jerk for doing the same?

[nate82]

Do you think Carlos Lee is a jerk for taking two more full seasons of guaranteed money than the Brewers could offer? Would Sheets be a jerk for doing the same?

I'm glad Carlos didn't accept our offer imagine having to deal with Braun at 3B instead of in the OF. uggg that would be ugly. On that note I wouldn't be mad that Sheets took a better offer than what we gave him. I would be mad that we didn't trade him for something.

[bklynbrewcrew]

If we wait till he reaches free agency he will probably test the market and at that point we would be outbid by quite a bit. If we are serious about keeping Sheets and I dont believe that we are we need to do it as soon as possible. If not we will wind up overpaying a Derek Lowe type as a free agent instead of keeping our ace. Big mistake!

[Greg Vaughn]

---

I would seriously give Sheets anything right now IF he pitches a full healthy season. I rather spend money on an ace than a DH like Prince Fielder on an NL team.

Has everyone forgotten Ben Sheets career with the Milwaukee Brewers? He has always been injury prone and always will be. We need to trade him now (or later in the year) while his value is at it's peak. We can't afford to be throwing 10's of millions @ injury prone pitchers....period.

[kramnoj]

Has everyone forgotten Ben Sheets career with the Milwaukee Brewers? He has always been injury prone

 

"Always" should be avoided, because in this case it isn't close to being true. Sheets has had weird injuries the last few years, but he has put together healthy seasons in the past.

[BrewCrewForever]

Sheets was completely healthy in 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004. Yes he has had injuries in the seasons since then but honestly with the state of pitching in MLB, I personally feel the reward is worth the risk in resigning Sheets. If he pitches the entire rest of this season making all of his starts I think Mark and Doug really need to consider giving him what he wants and keep him around.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Mark's been talking about finding a starting pitcher as soon as he can. I don't believe he's said a thing about the off-season.

Yes. But my point is save your money now and spend it later.

[Gopher74]

I think the assumption that Gallardo will be back as good as ever next season is dreaming. ACL surgery takes 10 months on average to recover fully. What kind of throwing program can he be on while he's rehabbing his knee? Once he gets on a mound will he have the confidence to drive off that knee? How long will it take for him to get his arm strength back to what it was after so many months of down time?

Briggs, have you ever injured your ACL? It's not nearly the type of catostrophic event you're making it out to be.

 

I blew my ACL out and I was back wrestling within 6 months. Now that requires a lot more strength and confidence than simply pushing off in baseball. There's absolutely no reason why Gallardo won't be back at full strength next year. He may not be as quick from Home to 1st, but he'll be just fine on the mound. In any event, it's most certainly not dreaming.

 

And I realize this post is early on and that since there have been rumblings about him coming back this year, but I'd assume he's been throwing the ball since about a week after his surgery.

 

Sheets seems healthy this year, so far.

 

I don't agree with this at all. Perhaps I need my 'sky is falling' cap, too, but I'm extremely concerned that Ben is right on the verge of some serious shoulder trouble. I can't emphasize enough how wrong I hope I am.

Yes, I've read others say this. Haven't heard why yet. So...why? Not only why, but how can you possible predict a major shoulder injury to a shoulder that's structurally fine and to a pitcher showing absolutely no sign of injury?

 

 

but not the 5 or 6 he's all but guaranteed to get if he goes all-out as a FA.

He is anything but guaranteed to get 5-6 years on the FA market. Sheets is not the top pitcher on the FA market. CC is all but guaranteed to get a 5-6 year deal as a FA. Sheets is more around 3-4, maybe 5, but I'd be surprised if he got 5 years.

 

 

(combined consecutive posts --1992)

[TooLiveBrew]

I wouldn't be surprised at all, unless it was from a small market. Adding a 5th year on an offer is what will/would likely set a bidder apart from the rest of the pack. If Carl Pavano can get a 4-year deal a few years back, I'm fairly sure Sheets can get a 5-yr. offer in 2008.

 

 

Not only why, but how can you possible predict a major shoulder injury to a shoulder that's structurally fine and to a pitcher showing absolutely no sign of injury?

 

But the thing is that there were signs (tricep tightness). This is from The Disabled List Informer blog... an entry from preseason 2007:

 

 

Ben Sheets, when healthy, is one of the most lethal pitchers in the game. A rocket fastball matched with a damning curveball are simply unmatched in the National League. The rub with drafting Sheets is his tendency for injury over the past two seasons. He suffered with "posterior shoulder pain" and "shoulder strains", which in medical terminology just means "He's got a lot of different muscles that are involved here."

 

The good news appears to be that his musculature and the tendons themselves have not torn. However, one has to wonder if this is the year that the system shuts down. When a muscle is strained, there is damage to its integrity. The fibers become malaligned, and if proper stretching and strengthening does not occur, this lends itself to a greater chance of reinjury. My guess is that Sheets probably does just enough to get back to pitching and then forgets about his rehab. Either that, or there is an underlying instability in his shoulder which requires his muscles to work that much harder to stabilize the joint during throwing.

 

Then there is the offseason low back surgery he had. Being that Sheets is 28 years old, this is young to be having a surgery of this sort, although certainly not unheard of. A "Discectomy" is when pieces of the shock absorbing discs between the vertebrae have to be removed, or excised, through a small incision (about 3-5 cm long) in the Spine. Think of each disc as a jelly donut. The wall has some integrity to it, and the inside is more of a gelatinous shock absorber. When the wall of the disc weakens, the "gel" can leak out and compress nerves, ligaments, joints, and muscles - leading to pain, numbness, weakness, and in bad cases, loss of bowel or bladder control.

 

It sounds like Ben Sheets has an issue with core and shoulder stability issues from a muscle standpoint. This is a possible reason why he had the disc herniation, and why his shoulder continues to get injured every 2 months or so for the past 2 years.

 

 

This is just one guy's opinion, but he also posited this season that "triceps tightness" was another sign that something was getting stressed to a dangerous point in the shoulder. I am no medical expert, but the first thing I wondered when the triceps tightness was announced was how it may or may not relate to the shoulder, since the triceps runs up through the rotator cuff (iirc).

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Reality is there aren't a great deal of options with Ben. If we wait until after the season, it will be another Lee/Coco situation. Someone will pay more for longer than we will be able to. They could try to offer a 4 year deal now, but most likely Sheets will turn it down. It's worth a shot IMO. Otherwise, I think we have to trade him before the deadline. We need to fix that starting staff before 2009...we just don't have the horses to make a run without an adaquate compliment to a hopefully healthy Yo.

[kramnoj]

I don't think it's true that the Brewers won't be able to afford Sheets, it's just a question of how big and how long they are willing to go, and if Sheets wants to stay. Let's say a team offers Ben $20 million. The Brewers can afford that just by using Ben's current salary plus some of Gagne's money. The team should be able to afford arb increases with players they probably won't resign: Mota, Cameron, Turnbow (duh), maybe Kendall, plus the rest of Gagne's money.

[T B0NE 10]

on espn they had sheets "on the market" and it made me sick