No choice now... (Sheets extension)

[Ennder]

Yes, pitchers get hurt, but PLEASE stop insinuating that Ben Sheets health over the last four years is normal for any pitcher. It's untrue and annoying.

 

Over 1 in 3 pitchers ends up on the DL every single season. So far this year 69% of all DL trips have been by pitchers including the majority of major injuries. Sheets had a long term injury that they tried to bring him back ahead of schedule for and there were complications. The next year he had some minor typical pitcher injuries. Yes this is normal for pitchers! Like I said the injury prone thing is just way overplayed(it exists somewhat since he doesn't do a good job with conditioning but not being able to mention his name without laughing about his health is silly), especially the comparisons to Prior, Harden and Schmidt that you get sometimes.

 

Like I said I don't want to sign him but there is no doubt that signing any pitcher to 4+ years is an extreme risk. Odds are against any pitcher staying healthy 4 years in a row and it is pretty darn rare for pitchers to stay healthy 5+ years in a row.

[logan82]

I would sign almost anybody with Sheets potential to a one year deal at $3-$4M as long as they were going to be healthy by the start of the season.

 

Yeah right. $3-$4M? You've got to be kidding. That's the cost of Turnbow, Vargas, Capuano, Mota, and so on and so forth. You really think Sheets is going to come at 1/3 of the cost of Eric Gagne for one year? Come on. Of course it'd be nice to see the Brewers sign Sheets at that price. And at that price, it wouldn't be such a shot in the nuts every time he would go down. At that price you can pretty much say anything you get from him is gravy...and it'd be worth it.

It is also Prior and Wood money. I also said it was only if he had a season ending injury in the next couple weeks.

[bklynbrewcrew]

What are the alternatives to signing Sheets long term? Sign another Suppan type like Derek Lowe for 13 mil plus per year or go into next season with a rotation of Yo, Suppan, Villy, Parra, and Bush. Im sorry but neither of these alternatives sound very good to me. Sometimes you just have to take a chance and Ben Sheets is the type of guy worth taking a chance on. I would rather pay big money on greatness (Sheets) versus paying for mediocrity like Suppan and Gagne. The best chance this team has of winning in the future is with a 1-2 punch of Ben and Yo which could equal any 1-2 punch in the league.

[TheCrew07]

Every year this topic of a big free agent signing comes up, and I really don't get it. Every dollar you give to someone you overpay to come here (Gagne) is another you don't have to pay one of the young core players. The key for Melvin is to determine who is expendable, and who isn't. Free agent pitching is not a good market for the Brewers, is Suppan worth the 10 mil with the no trade to this team? At least Gagne was a 1 year signing, but the early returns on that signing are not encouraging.

 

Pitchers get hurt way too often for me to accept the Brewers spending money on them. If a big signing would take place I'd rather they spend it on a position player where something relatively freakish has to happen for the money to go to waste. Granted position players get hurt, Rickey's wrist, JJ's ankle, etc... but generally those injuries are not career threatening.

 

I will agree that pitching is key, especially in the post season, but the Brewers will have to do it more the way Oakland has done, than the way Boston has done. Get em while they are young and spin them for more young pitching if you can. Again, I'd rather spend big money on position players than pitchers.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The Brewers need to continue to develop pitching in their minor league system - it's the only way they can expect to hang on to their young position player talent and remain solid enough as a pitching staff to compete.

 

Twins, A's, Indians - smaller market teams that have consistently contended by drafting/developing and trading for young pitching talent and then spinning it for additional prospects/pitchers once they become too expensive. These teams have been able to keep their best young pitching around a season or two past arbitration, but they've shied away from giving the crazy money contracts in order to keep a solid roster.

 

The Brewers appear to have little trouble identifying MLB-quality position players in the early rounds of the draft. They've been bitten by the injury bug when drafting young pitchers though - hopefully that changes with the draft this June.

[bcf5575]

the brewers really need to extend sheets. they have not done the job in developing a pitcher to take his place (well, one could argue that gallardo was that guy - but that is a big question mark now). it would be a shame to wait so long for this group of guys to develop and then not have the pitching to support it.

Besides - who else are we going to get that has the potential/skill of Sheets that is going to be any cheaper?

[TooLiveBrew]

Yeah, this (imo) might really come down to whether or not Benny feels compelled to give the Brewers a hometown discount. And in all honesty, the 'discount' would have to be in years instead of dollars. As has been mentioned, the Crew could manage a 3 or possibly even 4 year deal with Ben, but not the 5 or 6 he's all but guaranteed to get if he goes all-out as a FA.

 

Of course all this would likely be moot if he winds up having damage in that shoulder.

[Thurston Fluff]

With the number of decent position players coming along like LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar, and even Rottino I'd be more than happy to see Ben signed if they can. They could probably get an insurance policy on him since he hasn't had any major arm issues so the gamble wouldn't be as high injury wise as it relates to payroll restraints. As far as that cost goes St Louis took a huge chance on Carpenter who had his share of arm problems in Toronto. That seemed to work out pretty well for them even if you count the current problems he's having. Pitchers get hurt you pay them with the realization they probably will spend time on the DL. The hope is to get a couple good years out of them during that time. If they stay completly healthy then all the more power to you. It's not normal though and one just has to accept that as the price of remaining competetive.

[Ennder]

Something isn't normal about a shoulder injury? Something isn't normal about a tweaked groin (I know at least 5 pitchers who have had that just in April), something isn't normal about a strained hammy (at least 4 pitchers in april this year), something isn't normal about a jammed finger (very common). The only goofy injury Sheets has ever had is the inner ear thing.

[TooLiveBrew]

Triceps tightness and the blister? Come on...I haven't seen many pitchers with those two.

 

I know you're going for comedy and all, but this comment... pitchers commonly run into both of the examples here. If I missed the sarcasm, I apologize.

[endaround]

Seriously,if you never heard of pitchers developing blister problems you haven't seen much non Brewer baseball. Blisters have screwed up many pitcher's season because they seem to keep coming back once they start up.

[naivin]

Short of immediately elevating Jeff Weaver to the rotation, I can't think of a bigger panic move than giving Mr. 21 Starts a big contract extension.

[MessiahRp]

Seriously,if you never heard of pitchers developing blister problems you haven't seen much non Brewer baseball. Blisters have screwed up many pitcher's season because they seem to keep coming back once they start up.

 

See: Josh Beckett

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I thought I would resurrect the Sheets debate as it may become more critical in the ensuing months. It has become obvious to me that we just don't have the starting pitching to compete for the division this year. Much of it was losing Yo, but we are filled with question marks beyond.

 

A 2009 rotation of Yo, Soup, Parra, Villy and pick among the host off AAAA guys here or in Nashville won't do it. We need another legitimate 1-2 starter. Maybe Parra will become that guy down the line, but asking him to become Sheets is asking a lot. Drafting 6 college pitchers this year won't do it either. Whether it's Ben or someone else, we need a starter. Here are the options as I see it -

 

1) Re-sign Ben - It's expensive and the injury history is a risk. For every success, the risk of a Zito type deal could cripple the Brewers, but when Ben is on...he's the ace we need.

 

2) Trade Ben before the deadline. I know they'll worry about those August/September ticket sales, but this could be an opportunity to restock the minor league pitching depth.

Either way, we'll need another arm for 2009.

 

3) Sign a big free agent. Look what it cost for Suppan...a #3 starter at best. This is not cheap.

 

4) Trade an untradable player. This one is tough. I'm not talking guys with no value - Bush, Hall, Turnbow or anyone else people are sick of. Do we part with a star? Weeks, Hardy, Hart or Prince? I think anyone but Braun is in play. This is tough too because their replacements at Huntsville are more likely 2010 replacements (I know some of you are more optimistic on this than I am).

 

I'm starting to think we take a chance and sign him, if we can get at least a modest hometown discount. Banking on Sheets, Yo, Soup, Parra & Villy for '09 and betting that Sheets can stay healthy. The question is can they get him for 3-4 years and if he gets hurt will it completely handcuff us.

 

Emotion aside...what should DM do?

[yfinn6]

I agree SoCal. Anyone besides Braun (and obviously Yo because we need pitching) can go if it nets the Brewers a top end starter. If Sheets can't be resigned that is. This season makes it pretty clear how important pitching (and defense!!) is to winning.

 

And as long as aren't trotting out a lineup full of TGJ's I think the Brewers will be able to score runs fairly consistently, never mind last night.

[MickeyDavis]

If LaPorta can make the jump to our outfield next year we don't have to bring back Cameron and that saves us $10 million next year. Gagne's $10 million is also gone (thank God). Of course Prince will get a nice raise as will Hart and Weeks. It's an interesting (and important) situation.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

That's true Mickey. Maybe they do with LaPorta what they did with Braun...wait until late May/early June and bring him up to save that year of service. Probably move Hart to Center and put him in right. That won't exactly help our defense, but it will open up some cash. We'll have two big holes to fill - closer and starter. I'd rather see them take a chance on an emerging closer and firm up the starters. If it's not Sheets, who are their options?

[BrewCrewForever]

I think this season so far has shown how important pitching really is and I hope they can afford to sign Sheets. He is a top 10 starter in all of baseball. Yes there is the "injury risk" factor but I say the reward outweighs the risk. Sign him to an extension. Also trade anyone we can to get starting pitching except for of course Braun, Gallardo and Hart. No one else on the big club should be safe from trade.

[NastyTwig]

If we do get Sheets on a 3 or 4 year deal, his and Suppan's contracts will end right about the time that Gallardo and others will need to get signed. Hopefully Gallardo will turn into a pitcher that deserves that big money (Parra too).

 

With some big contracts up after the year, we should have enough money to pay Benny. If he stays healthy this year, I say give it to him.

[BrewCrewForever]

A healthy Gallardo next season, full season under his belt Parra, Sheets, Suppan and maybe another pitcher we trade for would be an awesome 5 next year.

[bklynbrewcrew]

I dont see any way we can justify not resigning Sheets. A rotation of Gallardo, Suppan, Parra, Villy and whoever fills the fifth spot is completely unacceptable. We cant go out and sign a replacement for Sheets unless you want to pay another Suppan type number one type starter money. Its obvious by now that Melvin doesnt know how to evaluate pitching correctly and it really bothers me that we apparently have made no attempts to resign Sheets. There is nothing more important or harder to acquire than a number one starter and when you have one you must do all you can to keep him. Sheets is more important to this franchise than any other players other than Braun and Gallardo. Letting him go would be extremely foolish and it would haunt us for years to come.

[TooLiveBrew]

How is it "obvious" that Melvin doesn't analyze pitching correctly? I've seen that tossed around a lot, and I just don't know how it can be justified. He gets zero credit for Parra & Gallardo, and all the blame for Capuano (injury), Gagne (injury), TBow (lucky to be successful in the first place; contract extension was not high risk), Suppan (Mark A.'s desired signing, reportedly), & Villanueva (lucky results prior to '08 made many feel he was a talent that he isn't).

 

It's getting near the point where Jack Z. is the main reason why the Brewers are good, & Melvin is the main reason why they're bad. They work together, and assemble the best talent they can. I don't agree at all that Melvin can't scout pitching. Also, I'd hope we can be spared how 'the pitching in Texas was awful', bc that really wasn't the case -- largely just a HR/hitters' park.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Parra was what a 26th round draft pick that was signed the following year for first round money? I'm not giving the GM credit for a 26th round pick that he probably never saw pitch until the draft and follow process was close to fruition.

 

Seriously when has Melvin put together a good pitching staff? His Texas teams never ever had good staffs. They were teams very much like the Brewers are now with big power hitters and lousy pitching. I mean John Burkett was his number one starter in Texas and Burkett was basically another Suppan.

 

Melvin has shown an inability to put together a good pitching staff and questions will remain on that subject until he does. Letting Ben Sheets leave would be another strike against Doug Melvin in his attempts to have a viable playoff caliber staff in place.

 

Every year this team seems to be forced to turn to career minor leaguers like Joe Winklesas or Mark Defilice. Why is it that this organization never seems to have the depth necessary to withstand a few injuries? Obviously losing Gallardo was a blow to this teams playoff chances but every year we seem to have no viable replacements in AAA when guys get hurt.

 

McClung starting tonight is another example that this team has no pitching whatsoever. How in the world is this team ever gonna replace Sheets? Its a question that I hope we never have to answer.

 

 

(combined consecutive posts and divided into paragraphs --1992)

[TooLiveBrew]

So Melvin doesn't get credit for Parra... he gets blamed for pitching in Texas that was heavily skewed by playing their home games in a launching pad (would you have suggested he not build his offenses around the HR?)... and you once again point out only one SP from his tenure in Texas as yet another sign he can't evaluate pitching.

 

I just don't get why the argument is that he can't eval. pitching, aside from frustration now & selective or poor memory.

 

No mention of (1996 Tex. ace) Ken Hill's stellar 1996 -- Melvin brought in Hill... no mention that Burkett was fine in '96, the season that Melvin acquired him from FLA... no mention of good bullpens in all 3 playoff seasons ('96, '98 & '99)... no mention of getting Helling back from FLA for two solid seasons in '98 & '99.

[bklynbrewcrew]

Those Texas staffs were never better than average. I agree that the ball park in Texas made it harder to put together pitching staffs but the fact remains that Melvin has never put together a top flight pitching staff. Whether or not he is capable is a question that cannot be answered until he actually does so. His and ownerships lack of aggressiveness in regards to a Sheets extension is very disturbing to me. This staff he has put together for this year is awful and losing Sheets is just not an acceptable outcome.