Due to Gallardo's injury, time to trade an asset for a good starter

[Jubes4025]

Could Greg Maddux be an option? It would kinda be like when the Brewers got Don Sutton in 82. I dont know if he has a no trade clause or not but if the Padres are out of it by July maybe he would want to come here and team up with his bro for a run at the playoffs.

[sbrylski]

Could Greg Maddux be an option? It would kinda be like when the Brewers got Don Sutton in 82. I dont know if he has a no trade clause or not but if the Padres are out of it by July maybe he would want to come here and team up with his bro for a run at the playoffs.

Contract:

• 1 year/$10M (2007), plus 2008 options

• • [li]
  signed as a free agent 12/06

• 07:$10M, 08:$6M player option or $11M club option
  

• 2008 player option may increase to:

• $7.5M with 170 IP in 2007

• $8.75M with 185 IP in 2007

• $10M with 200 IP in 2007
  

• no-trade protection

[/li]

So it'd be a significant monetary investment for a 42 year old (43 in 2009), and he'd have to waive his no-trade. I do think Milwaukee would be on his short list for places to be trade to, though.

[brewmann04]

If the crew is around 500 come the Trade deadline and benny having a good year,maybe melvin can get some quality prospects back in return

[SeriesFinale]

I'm really loving the ideas that are bieng thrown out here on this thread page (although I still believe that Lincecum is a near-impossibility even if the Giants lose 100 games--him and Cain are the primary reasons to be Giants fans right now and the Giants and their fans would need an actual major league star, not TGJ, to accept any Lincecum trade), but I still think it's way too early for either the Brewers or any other team to make any deal like this.

 

Thread should be put on ice until late June...we'll see where we're at, we'll know where they're at.

 

(Greg Maddux in a Brewers uniform with his brother sounded good a few years ago and sounds even better now, though. Hmmmmmm)

[saget]

I'm thinking with all the early-ish(6 of the first 62) picks we have this draft, this year would be a good time for a trade. The prospects we trade away could in theory be replaced relatively quickly by all our picks, which with Jack Z at the helm it's a good bet we get some very good players.

[Gopher74]

But I would say some teams, if not a Gallardo, have a Parra/Villenueva type they can go to and do alright with. We have Dave Bush or Jeff Weaver. Nothing else anywhere close on the horizon and nobody (unless you have confidence in McClung) in the bullpen to possibly be a competent starter either.

I think the number of teams that have a pitcher the caliber of Dave Bush that they can go to in a situation like this can probably be counted on one hand.

 

I understand that Bush hasn't reached the levels some predicted he would reach after the numbers he posted in 06, the whip that was 4th in the league, the BB/K ration that I believe was tops in the NL. However, he's still a very solid pitcher, and a very good number 5, and I think as such, he gets undervalued significantly be some on here. He's not a front line guy like we thought he may become, but he's also good enough to get us through.

 

That's not to say that I don't agree that we should at least explore making a deal for another 1/2 or 3 type guy, just that we're not in as much trouble with Bush IMO as you suggest.

 

 

 

You did kinda peak my interest with regards to Seth McClung being moved back into the starters role. I know, I know, nothing in his history suggests that he would succeed as a starter, but he's got the type of stuff, that if he has developed some confidence in it, then perhaps we could catch lightning in a bottle with him. That's a far fetched idea, and I'm sure few will put much faith in that idea, however I'm at least midly intrigued by it.

 

[KCBrewerfan34]

For me Lincecum is the guy to get, he is sensational, young and would seem to fit nicely with this team. Lincecum & Gallardo at the top of our rotation would be great.

 

What about Hardy & Gamel and another prospect (Jeffress?) FOR Lincecum

 

 

Escobar plays SS, he's cheaper as J.J's arby starts, what do you guys think? More importantly what does Mr Sabean think http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[pogokat]

Gamel+ Escobar+ Luis Pena would probably net us a very good pitcher...in my mind that's probably the best package the team could come up with without mortgaging the future completely or the present at all...

 

i don't know who we could get, but that would be enough to get just about anyone who's legitimately available...

[PeaveyFury]

Maddux would seem to be a logical target. He's performing well, he's certainly an upgrade over someone like Bush, and you'd think he'd be very willing to come to work with his brother. Also, should take too much to get him- something like Gwynn/Pena, if that.

[dadofandrew]

Lincecum is shorter than most RHP's, and will demand a great deal in return, as would any young SP. The way to get guys like him is to develop them, not overpay.

[twobrewers]

DOA - you seem to think it is unwise to ever trade for starting pitching. Beckett has worked out great for the Red Sox. (And they gave up Hanley Ramirez!) Haren is working great for Arizona. Schilling worked out great for Boston. Santana seems to be doing just fine with New York. Volquez is playing great in Cincinatti. I don't think Atlanta has regretted Hudson.

 

That is just recent history. I would imagine that many, many instances of teams trading prospects for #1 starters that have benefited both teams. I can't think of any instance where trading for a #1 pitcher has failed. (Maybe Mulder - though the Cardinals did win the World Series in 2006) Trading prospects for #3 and #4 pitchers is a bad idea.

 

Just a thought, since everyone seems to think Lincecum would be a great addition - how about someone head over the a SF Giants message board and ask what they would want in return.

[RyDogg66]

I would second the thought on Derek Lowe, but dont want to sound like I support it too much because I remember how chastised I was when I recommended we pursue him as a FA a few years ago. It was a very unpopular position to take.

[southpaw121505]

I'm thinking with all the early-ish(6 of the first 62) picks we have this draft, this year would be a good time for a trade. The prospects we trade away could in theory be replaced relatively quickly by all our picks, which with Jack Z at the helm it's a good bet we get some very good players.

I was thinking the same thing. With our track record of drafting and developing position players, why not trade a few prospects now and still have time to re-stock and replace them and develop them to replace our current big leaguers?

 

I don't want a rental player, but if we could get a guy like Lincecum, or even Cain, I'd pounce. I'd give them Gamel or LaPorta(not both) and then maybe Escobar and one or two more depending on who it is. This is the type of move I could see DM doing because it helps us this year with Gallardo being out, but also helps us going forward with losing Sheets. Gallardo, Lincecum, Parra, CV makes me happy.

[colbyjack]

Lincecum is shorter than most RHP's, and will demand a great deal in return, as would any young SP. The way to get guys like him is to develop them, not overpay.

 

But the problem is that if the team is indeed in a win-now mode, or at least in the next year or two, the Brewers don't have time to develop their own starters such as a Tim Lincecum. In past years I would agree with you 100%, but I'm to the point now where I don't want to see the Brewers sitting by hoping the pieces come together for them if there is an opportunity to improve the pitching staff with some of the perceived extra prospects that the team currently has in their system.

 

I think pogo's proposal of Gamel, Escobar and Pena is a pretty good one, although I think any team moving a top starter is probably going to look to get some kind of starter in return. I'm not convinced that Lincecum could even be had, and I'm not even sure who else is out there, but I do hope Melvin is aggressively working the phones.

 

As for waiting to make a move, I agree to a certain extent. If the starting staff continues to struggle as it has recently, and losing Gallardo is obviously a huge blow, I would rather see a move made earlier rather than later. I still remember the conversations from the 1992 season in which people wondered how much better the Brewers could have been earlier in the season had Cal Eldred been called up earlier than what he was. Unfortunately we don't have a Cal Eldred to call up, which obviously increases the need to look elsewhere.

[nate82]

I would trade Tony Gwynn Jr. and a mid level prospect for Kevin Millwood. The only problem with Millwood would be his big contract. But this could also work to the Brewers advantage instead of trading a big name prospect for Millwood and the Rangers paying all the salary the Brewers could take Millwood and get away with only a Tony Gwynn Jr. type of a player for Millwood.

[BrewCrewBaseball]

I agree with the poster above a couple posts. We are in a win now mode. We cant take a step back and just trade away Sheets and who ever else if were out of the race in two months. We need to keep pace and make a push. The thing is it wont happen with this rotation this point in time. To much risk, and too much inexperience with Parra and Villy...

[Big Reed]

and that - your response sounds like the brewers' standard answer for the past 20 years. let's not be hasty. let's look at what we have. let's evaluate out talent for another 2 months before we make a decision. And let's not look for a quick fix solution. let's look long term. and while the brewers are doing al lthose great financially economic things, the season will have passed them by and the brewers will be looking at 2009 and 2010 as the seasons when we'll win it all. and the brewers will be talking about all the draft picks we just made who won't be in the majors for another 3-4 years. And brewer fans will go back to bragging with their twins friends and reds friends and cubs enemies about how our A and AA teams are better than theirs and in 3 years how our team will be much better than thers. Rather tha n comparing Fielder to Lee and mornea, we'll be saying how great our Rogers is compared to their Dale Evans. it's a broken record sung by bobby Vinton that I've heard played by Liverace on the radio too many times.

 

Rather than being reactive, the brewers need to be proactive. they need to be risk takers, rather than playing it safe. They've tried playing it safe and building for the future for the past 25 years. It's time to stop hoping what the future "MIGHT" bring, and start looking at what we can do in the present. it's time to start incorporating some of the Florida marlins' strategy and win now. What's going to happen 5 years from now when we look back and see 4 seasons of 85-88 win and no division crowns? Are brewers fans going to be satisfied with those type of results and then say, well we did the best we could being a small market team and all? the odds were against us anyway.

 

We need to replace gallardo NOW! with a quality pitcher - NOT BUSH! We need to make a trade NOW, not wait to see how we're doing for the next two months before taking action. We know what Bush has. he has a nice white house with a nice green back yard and a nice view of Washington Monument.. he is not the answer as a quick fix or long term solution. he's not an all star ballot type of pitcher. We need somebody now that can win games and also be an incentive for Sheets to resign. Allowing Sheets to leave as a FA and getting all those great draft picks as compensation is not going to win us any championships any time soon.

 

We need to take action NOW, not July.

[Oldcity]

That's not the point Big Reed. The point is: What team is going to trade an above average pitcher after one month of the season? Those guys rarely become available during the season, and if they do, it certainly won't be until teams know they're out of contention. Like in July.

[Big Reed]

My point is that the brewers always wait 2-3 months before they take any action. and by that time , they resolve themselves that no further action needs to be taken because they are no longer in the race. if the brewers take their typical, let's see what we can do with existing talent and then wait until july to do something, they won't have to do anything , because by that time the brewers will be 12 games out and will justify to themselves that they are too far behind to make a major move or rent an expensive player. Wins in April and may are jmore meaningful as wins in Septemeber. if we don't win these games now, we won't have to worry about what the team does in September.

 

if the brewers have any real thoughts of winning a championship this year, they need to replace gallardo with an ace starter now. if they are just content on having a moderate successful 83 win season, then no further action is required. if the yankees lost AROD or jeter or Wang for the season, they would find an immediate replacement of the caliber of the player they lost. they would not just play the rest of the season starting Ensberg at third. Would they? I have to believe they would give the farm away and acquire a mega star like berkman or tejada or oswaldt immediately.

 

Unfortunately, the brewers always seem to take their time when they do anything. teams don't have to wait until july to make a trade. Cincy has homer bailey and bruce ready to be called up tommorow if griffey or Dunn or arroyos was traded. Colorado has Stewart counting his days before atkins or helton is traded. other teams are in similar situations. if the Brewers wanted to trade for a Giants pitcher, I'm sure if the brewers offered enough in talent, a trade could be made today for Cain or Linceum. We could have had Zito last week if we wanted him. Washington's cordero has been offered up for trade for the last two years. I'm positive they'd trade him today if they got an offer they liked. The same applies to any number of teams. We don't have to wait until July or until after bush's next 5 starts. make a trade Now. Fix the proble m now. Don't let mediocrity linger.

 

My biggest problem with melvin is not the trades he makes, but that he waits too long to make them and by the time he does make them, the da m is already broke and no longer needs to be repaired.

[Oldcity]

But you completely ignored my only point. How is he supposed to trade for someone now when nobody is ready to sell yet?

[DrWood]

I'd like to see 2-4 more starts from villy, parra, and bush before I sacrificed any real prospects. They might do well enough to win, if the offense starts to hit like they should.

[Big Reed]

my point is that a lot of teams are ready to sell. it's just that melvin is not willing to meet their price, and he's hoping if he waits longer, then they might not ask for as much or the brewers' farm hands might improve their value and he can trade them for a better player.

 

I guarantee if the brewers offered the Giants Prince Fielder, they'd trade the brewers Linceum by tommorow. They would not hesitate or wait until the trade deadline. They'd jump all over that deal. While that deal may be a tad unrealistic and unpopular, I think it is safe to assume if the Brewers offered hart, they would be able to make a deal with any team this week.

 

the problem is not that other teams are not ready yet to make a deal. many teams would be willing to make a deal tonight if the right brewers players were offered. the problem is melvin doesn't want to trade away players like hart or weeks or hardy or Fielder. Oswaldt could be had this week if melvin wanted to part with certain players.

 

But melvin would rather wait and see and hope guys like Parra and Villenuavea and Bush will elevate their game to a much higher level than previously expected. From Melvin's viewpoint, if these three pitchers can elevate their game, he doesn't have to trade Hart. from my viewpoint, expecting Parra, Bush and Villenuava to all elevate their game three noches is being way too optimistic. and the longer melvin waits to take action, the further back the brewers will fall.

[endaround]

How does trading Fielder do anything to help the Brewers? Why would any team want Hart if they are trading away a pitcher with years left? If the Royals don't believe they can win with Greinke in the next three years why would adding Hart for three years make it worthwhile? And making the major league team worse isn't a good idea.

[Bert55]

I believe Doug realizes, unlike many of the posters, that the season is early. Way too early to panick.

 

Here is my point....

 

Take a look at the top 3 teams in our division. look at the each clubs home and away games played so far. Here, let me help:

 

Cards home: 21 games away: 12 games

Cubs home: 17 games away: 15 games

 

Brewers: home: 13 games away: 18 games

 

The Brewers have been playing away from home a great deal. And our record away from home is better than in years past.

 

Lastly, this is professional baseball, not fantacy baseball. It takes agreat deal more to move ball players around, verses callin up you buddy and trading.

 

Friends, relax and enjoy America's pasttime.

[davego]

While I am not as ready to pull the trigger on a trade as of yet, by June 1st or so, it might be needed to stay in the 08 race. Not to suggest I know more about anything baseball related then DM...I just hope adding a quality starter via trade isn't dismissed out-of-hand.