Cubs fans message board

[cubfan1126]

I don't post at NSBB or BCB. Our windycitysports forum here at yuku has unfortunately suffered an identity crises over the years. Too much to go into but we are small and passionate. We actually had 1 guy that had blasted all Cubs fans that went to games for causing the team to not get any better. Called most of the attendees "tourists" then he disappeared for 4 months. Came back the day after we captured the division in 2003 (BTW thanx for beating the Astros that day) proclaiming how great the team wasand what a great fan he was. We banned him on the spot. That's passionate.

[homer]

cubfan,

I'm curious....from an outsiders perspective (and by that I just mean non-Brewer fan). what do you think of our board?

[cubfan1126]

You're quite normal.

 

Over the top giddy when winning

Too far down in the dumps when losing

A few that are always humorous

A few (well at least 1) that think they are humorous but are not

An unrealistic belief that the Cubs will lose - because they are the Cubs

 

and you are ultra-conservative (based on two conversations with Brian)

[Bring Back the Stein]

The last thing I want to hear from on my home team message board are chirpy posts from fans of opposing teams. It's like having a cheery proctologist. Don't want to hear from them, just don't. Not interested, not in the mood. That's why I don't subject fans of other teams to that kind of passive-aggressive abuse, unless they're in my home stadium, exposing themselves to the baseball gods as boors (and ensuring a second century of losing).

 

At any rate, anyone check out the in-game threads at that Cards site, www.vivaelbirdos.com? I tend to casually drop f-bombs, so keeping off the, um, BAD list here is a challenge for me, but Mein Gott, they'd make Richard Pryor blush.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

Not from a message board but a co-worker of my fiance sent a long explanation of why the brewers were swept by the obviously superior cubs last week. It too long to post the whole thing (3 pages) but here are some of the best parts:

 

Although,the Cubs four game sweep of their rival Milwaukee Brewers may have come as a shock to most baseball fans, it should not come as a surprise to long time observers of this Chicago Cubs team. In previous "statement" series against the Cardinals, Rockies and Diamondbacks, the Cubs dominated their opponents. Furthermore, since Aramis Ramirez's walk-off homer to cap a five-run comeback in Wrigley in July last year, the Cubs have beaten the Brewers every time they have needed to. The results of this series have re-enforced this dominance.

 

Dave Bush - Not nearly as good as the top two or even Parra.

 

Ryan Braun - An elite hitter, near Albert Pujols level. However, his defense is not even at a Triple A level. He had trouble against the Cubs right-handers, who gave him a lot of inside fastballs. His defense was so bad, it caused game 2 to be a blow-out. He needs to be moved to 1st base which is currently occupied by……

 

Prince Fielder - He had a statistically good series (6-13, 2HRs) However, most of his hits came long after the game was decided. Lost his cool at the end of the series. He is also terrible defensively and is better suited as a DH in the American League. Caused more problems for the Cubs than Braun. They Cubs usually pitched around him.

 

Mike Cameron - An above average fielder. He is asked to do too much because he plays between two defensive liabilities in Hart and Braun.

 

Jason Kendall - Below average defensively and barely major league quality offensively. The Cubs ran wild against him this series. They stole 3rd base three times on Kendall!. He also was caught stealing in game 3 which was a turning point in that game. The Brewers are in desperate need of an upgrade at this position and should have made a trading deadline move for one.

 

National League Contenders that are better than the Brewers: Chicago Cubs

National League Contenders equal to the Brewers: Florida Marlins, New York Mets, Philadelphia Phillies

National League Contenders that are worse than the Brewers: Los Angeles Dodgers, Arizona Diamondbacks, St. Louis Cardinals

Prediction: 91 wins NL Wild Card. 1st round loss to Marlins

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

So Jason Kendall has one bad series, and that makes him bad defensively? Have that person check out the Caught Stealing percentages this season and have him report back to you.

[Brian the Automator]

and you are ultra-conservative (based on two conversations with Brian)

I'd like to think that I'm close to moderate. I try very, very hard to keep sex/politics/religion completely off the board, no matter what side the argument lies on. Yeah, I'd say we're _STRICT_, but I don't want people do think that I'm moderating with some sort of political agenda, here.

[rluzinski]

Brewerfan.net does an excellent job of moderating this board, which puts it ahead of the majority of sports messageboards. I think the quality of the average post around here isn't much different than other baords anymore, though. Most people seem to put very little thought in what they share.. I'm sure that the minor league forum is still an excellent source for information, and I know that the draft coverage is still top notch The in game threads are pretty much junk now, though, and even the major league forum is thin on actual, solid facts. Just a lot of emotionally driven rhetoric.

 

I know, this is what happens when the fanbase increases tenfold in 3 years. And if the majority of people stlike bf.net this way, nothing SHOULD change. I'll have to learn how to conceed gracefully,

[ecjimg]

Its easy to be a mis-informed Cub fan regarding Kendall's defense. WSCR "Baseball Expert" Steve Stone said on the air that Kendall cant throw anybody out this year, and is showing why the Cubs got rid of him.

[hurricanecrush]

The in game threads are pretty much junk now

In your opinion, what would a "good" in game thread look like. I'm not disagreeing with you, I generally respect your opinion (even when I don't agree with it) and would like your take.

 

[SheetsCyYoung04]

Although,the Cubs four game sweep of their rival Milwaukee Brewers may have come as a shock to most baseball fans, it should not come as a surprise to long time observers of this Chicago Cubs team.

Or people who pay attention to pythagorean records. While I am sure the Cubs beat the odds, there is little doubt they had been the better team this year.

 

In previous "statement" series against the Cardinals, Rockies and Diamondbacks, the Cubs dominated their opponents.

Cardinals- dominated to the tune of a 3-3 record vs. the Redbirds this season.

Rockies- One heck of a statement sweeping a team that was 17 games below .500, 57 games in.

Diamondbacks- This season's 4-2 record defintely makes up for the sweep last year

 

Furthermore, since Aramis Ramirez's walk-off homer to cap a five-run comeback in Wrigley in July last year, the Cubs have beaten the Brewers every time they have needed to. The results of this series have re-enforced this dominance.

 

Yes this series reinforced their dominace of that commanding 5-6 record vs. the Brewers coming in since that Ramirex walk off last June

 

Dave Bush - Not nearly as good as the top two or even Parra.

 

point-being? Not to put down Parra, but he is carrying a WHIP near 1.50.

 

Ryan Braun - An elite hitter, near Albert Pujols level. However, his defense is not even at a Triple A level. He had trouble against the Cubs right-handers, who gave him a lot of inside fastballs. His defense was so bad, it caused game 2 to be a blow-out. He needs to be moved to 1st base which is currently occupied by……

 

Nice analysis of a players defense based off a sample size of 1/40th of a season.

 

Mike Cameron - An above average fielder. He is asked to do too much because he plays between two defensive liabilities in Hart and Braun.

 

Im glad he took the time to back up his claim about Hart being a defense liability with all sorts of statistical evidence.

 

Jason Kendall - Below average defensively and barely major league quality offensively. The Cubs ran wild against him this series. They stole 3rd base three times on Kendall!. He also was caught stealing in game 3 which was a turning point in that game. The Brewers are in desperate need of an upgrade at this position and should have made a trading deadline move for one.

 

Yeah, why didnt we just trade for Joe Mauer at the deadline.

[rluzinski]

In your opinion, what would a "good" in game thread look like. I'm not disagreeing with you, I generally respect your opinion (even when I don't agree with it) and would like your take.

 

When I missed a game, I always enjoyed being able to read through the in game thread, along with the play-by-play, to get a sense of the little situations that don't show up well on paper (a long AB ending in a hit, a non-error error, how a pitcher generally looked, etc...). There just doesn't seem much of that now. There just isn't much there anymore. All I seam to learn is who doesn't like what player and whether the Brewers are on a winning or a losing streak. Don't get me wrong, I'm not above a sarcastic one liner but I try to add objective observations about the game as well.

 

Like I said, though, if that's the way people like it, I'm not going to pretend it should change.

[TooLiveBrew]

We actually had 1 guy that had blasted all Cubs fans that went to games for causing the team to not get any better. Called most of the attendees "tourists" then he disappeared for 4 months. Came back the day after we captured the division in 2003 (BTW thanx for beating the Astros that day) proclaiming how great the team wasand what a great fan he was. We banned him on the spot. That's passionate.

 

That's awesome. Trolls suck big-time. By the way, I think your analysis of the board is pretty spot-on, save calling it "ultra-conservative"

[IslandsAC]

I think the quality of the average post around here isn't much different than other baords anymore, though. Most people seem to put very little thought in what they share..

I would agree with this, as well as the fact that it's probably partially the natural evolution of the forum. Still, I've often thought that getting rid of the # of posts in the little Author profile to the left of every post might make a difference. Personally, I know that at one time I had a competitive desire to reach the next posting plateau at the cost of intelligent discussion.

[Brian the Automator]

I would agree with this, as well as the fact that it's probably partially the natural evolution of the forum. Still, I've often thought that getting rid of the # of posts in the little Author profile to the left of every post might make a difference. Personally, I know that at one time I had a competitive desire to reach the next posting plateau at the cost of intelligent discussion.

I agree with the idea that post quality has suffered quite a bit since the inception of the site, and it's something that bugs me. The problem is, how do you implement standards on these things? Some responses only really require a few words, and not a dissertation for dissertation's sake. We've tried to guide "serial one-line posters" and users who constantly rag on one particular thing (Yost, Fielder, Suppan, etc...etc) who seem to have an agenda, or at least a huge grudge. By doing this, we've received some backlash about our tactics, so it sort of keeps the mods on-edge with "how far do I go?", because it's far from a black & white issue.

I agree somewhat with the post count, but personally, I wear mine like a badge of shame (he has HOW MANY?...sheesh). I'll talk to the crew about getting rid of post counts, all though I do find it helpful from time to time when it comes to how I communicate with a users (for example, veterans: "you should know better", and newbies: "re-read the rules").

 

[rluzinski]

I don't know what you could do, Brian. I don't mean to suggest the mods could or should do anything. I just feel like this place has turned into a sports radio show. Chhose a topic, have a very strong opinion about it but off little or nothing to back it up. +1 points if the topic involves attacking the character of a player or coach.

 

Take any unmoderated sports message board, filter out the personal attacks and vulgar language, and what you have left will look pretty much the same as what we have here., especially thr IGT. Lot's of ridiculously extreme opinions, little intelligent debate. The Brewer are either going to win 20 games in a month or 8. They either have all the confidence in the world or none at all. Hardy is great/sucks/great/sucks. This is not how the real world works, people.

 

And just to be clear, this isn't some rant about needed to statistically prove every comment, or any such nonsense. There are several posters who rarely look past a players season or career stats and can still construst a reasonable argument. I may not agree with them but they at least tok the time to explain WHY they feel the way that they do. How many people even try to formulate an argument, anymore?

[logan82]

I think the post quality is way better during the off season. There seems to be less emotion and more thought put into posts. I am not trying to say that all my posts or even most are gold(or even bronze, heck some are poor). I think the major thing is there is a lot less venting which seems to carry over into other threads.

[TooLiveBrew]

I just feel like this place has turned into a sports radio show. Chhose a topic, have a very strong opinion about it but off little or nothing to back it up. +1 points if the topic involves attacking the character of a player or coach.

 

Excellent post Russ. I'm glad the elephant in the room is finally being addressed. I'm sure this will lead to people thinking this is 'elitist' or whatever... which kind of proves the point on its own.

 

And I agree with IslandsAC (glad to see you around, buddy) on the 'race for the ____th post' -- I was guilty of the same thing once upon a time, but now feel like Brian about being a bit embarassed about it.

 

 

How many people even try to formulate an argument, anymore?

 

Shut up! Bottom line is Hardy SUCKS!

[mark brouhard is number on]

I don't know what you could do, Brian. I don't mean to suggest the mods could or should do anything. I just feel like this place has turned into a sports radio show. Chhose a topic, have a very strong opinion about it but off little or nothing to back it up. +1 points if the topic involves attacking the character of a player or coach.

 

Take any unmoderated sports message board, filter out the personal attacks and vulgar language, and what you have left will look pretty much the same as what we have here., especially thr IGT. Lot's of ridiculously extreme opinions, little intelligent debate. The Brewer are either going to win 20 games in a month or 8. They either have all the confidence in the world or none at all. Hardy is great/sucks/great/sucks. This is not how the real world works, people.

 

And just to be clear, this isn't some rant about needed to statistically prove every comment, or any such nonsense. There are several posters who rarely look past a players season or career stats and can still construst a reasonable argument. I may not agree with them but they at least tok the time to explain WHY they feel the way that they do. How many people even try to formulate an argument, anymore?

totally agree with you. the original reason i enjoyed coming here was to learn more things and to see what other people thought about all things going on in Brewer world. I still get that but it seems like there are way too many extreme comments that are just way over the top, especially the Yost thread. Seems like just way too many angry posters lately, much like talk radio hosts and callers, instead of trying to learn while stating your own opinion, its many posts just complaining about a particular player, coach, or situation.

 

I like posts that make you think, even if i don't necessarily agree.

 

its not just here that its bad though. i have a harder time even talking about the Brewers with any one at work. it seems its always, so and so sucks, why are they doing this, etc. and it just gets so old I don't even bother trying to talk Brewers or baseball with many people anymore.

 

[wallus]

I definately agree that the board has gone down a little bit in general and appreciate rluz for bringing it up. What are other message boards like SOS doing?

I have a couple of ideas: all new posters have a probationary period where they have to wait a certain time before they can post after they register. In that period, they can be gotten rid of much easier than someone who has been here for years and knows the rules. I think that if you make posters observe for a while (like I did years ago when I joined) before you post, they will know that this is not the ESPN message board. Another benefit would be that it would keep away trolls who would want to post right away and would not be willing to wait.

[fondybrewfan]

I think the large majority of new posters have already lurked around here for a while so they should already know the rules. I know I lurked for a long while before I registered. A message board is a good place for fans to let their opinions be known. I for one don't use a whole lot of statistics behind my arguments and sure I tend to post on emotional highs or emotional lows. If these kinds of post weren't allowed their would be much much less traffic here. As long as you aren't disrespectful of other people's opinion and are open to a logical discussion, I don't see what the issue is. Every message board ever created is bound to turn ugly when things go bad, it really doesn't matter how many "band wagon" fans are posting, because it isn't like diehard Brewer fans resist posting when they are PO'd either. It just happens. Game threads especially aren't really meant to be a place for deep discussion because the game itself is so emotional and you certianly don't want to spend a bunch of time typing instead of actually watching the game.

[JumpinMacFlash]

I still think that the overall quality of these boards is excellent and is the place I go to for analysis. That being said, I agree that the quality of the individual posts themselves has gone downhill as well.

 

I did the same thing that Wallus did. I've been a member for three years and I've been reading since the site was started, but my post number is pretty dang small, compared to people that have been around for about the same amount of time. I've said something along these lines before, but I know I've learned an incredible amount about the Brewers, the minor leagues, and baseball as a whole since I've been here. Honestly, it's gotten to the point that, for the most part, I find myself in agreement with a lot of the people who post more frequently. I'll feel the need to post something or respond to a post and as I read along, I find that someone with the same ideas as myself has already voiced them. Instead of piling on or simply throwing in a "me too" I just don't add anything. I feel like I'm informed and can contribute, but at the same time, I don't think I always add something to the debate or conversation and I keep my words to myself. I don't mean to offend anyone in particular, but I think that it might be a little better if some people took the same advice, particularly if a topic gets into nothing but circular dialog.

 

I know that I know baseball and the Brewers. I know that I can write and express an informed opinion, but I also know when additional comments aren't that necessary. I also know that if I really feel strongly about something and feel like I have an important point to make, I will say it. I feel that the product that people consume here is very important and the quality of the discussion is paramount for others to learn and associate with others who enjoy and feel passionate about the same things that they do.

[kramnoj]

I'm relatively new here, so I can't speak for what this place used to be like. I know that I wanted to join this place because it had the most intelligent, active discussion about the Brewers that I could see.

 

To continue the sports radio theme: when things are going well, the post-game shows sometimes struggle getting enough callers to fill the allotted time, but when things are going bad, the lines are lit up with people willing to express their views. I can see that here to some extent. When the Brewers are winning easily, there aren't as many new topics on a daily basis. There's only so many ways to express contentment and happiness, and one of the board guidelines is to not be repetivie. When there are things to complain about, there are usually multiple people that can be blamed, and ideas on how to fix things, etc.

 

I could totally be wrong in my theory. What did this place used to be like that was so much better? Is there less actual interesting discussion these days, or is it just drowned out by all the noise? If there is less interesting discussion, why is that? Have some people left, if so why?

 

I used to spend all my baseball internet time at baseballprimer and in my opinion that site has decreased from what it used to be. When I first started reading it, an average post consisted of a few paragraphs and a topic rarely had more than a few dozen replies. These days a thread can reach a few hundred posts just because a lot of people want to have their say, even if what they say isn't any different from dozens of other posts. I guess that's one of the prices that come with popularity.

[And That]

This is a friendly reminder to not simply post "I agree with that poster" and nothing more because it doesn't add to the discussion, and if everyone did that... well, you know.

[Brian the Automator]

I could totally be wrong in my theory. What did this place used to be like that was so much better? Is there less actual interesting discussion these days, or is it just drowned out by all the noise? If there is less interesting discussion, why is that? Have some people left, if so why?

I guess part of it is that there was less of an expectation "back in the day", and people wouldn't freak out over every win and loss. We also had a very self-policing userbase, and the whole idea of issuing "warnings" and "strikes" was completely foreign. Yes, there were less threads and fewer posts, but there were also much fewer one-liners and people repeating the same opinion over and over, because there was less noise to feel you had to "yell" through.

 

At the same time, I do enjoy the site's popularity these days. The biggest thing I enjoy is watching someone come in with a certain level of interest and knowledge about the team and the sports, and then clearly grow in that interest as time goes on. I enjoy "read it on brewerfan" becoming common vernacular for a lot of fans, players, and media-type people.

 

Rolling with the site's growth is the biggest challenge we've faced to date. We've implemented more rigid rules, and made it more challenging to apply for access (you now have to fill out an application, where we expect something more than "YOST BLOWZ! LET ME IN!". We've added a slew of moderators as well, as the sheer volume of posting has become overwhelming to moderate. I really, really feel that changes need to be made within the userbase. I'd prefer that it would be communicating to users what our expectations are, but obviously removing users is an option on the table.

 

I just want to say that I think the vast majority of you are doing a real fine job, and if you haven't got a PM about a strike or a warning, we've had absolutely no problems with you. Obviously, it only takes a few vocal repetitive people to "clog up the bases", so to speak... and it's my goal to address these things so that people who've come to believe Brewerfan is the premier place to talk Brewers still believe that.