Gallardo injury: Has torn ACL, placed on 15-day DL; Bush recalled (reply #32)

[lcbj68c]

I said this before and I will say it again: Johnson slid outside the box at first base. That is not hustle that is being stupid and is illegal. Even if they missed the tag he would have been out because of that. Shouldn't have happened if he wasn't being stupid.

As a college umpire, he was not outside of the basepath that he would have been called out. Furthermore, if a player without the ball (Yovani) is obstructing, it is acceptable for him to attempt to go around that player either by running or by sliding. I'll post rule chapters and interpretations if you feel the need to read them

[Tbadder]

Game, set, match. I know, I know...I'm way too negative. But objectively, I really see no way this team can make the playoffs now without corresponding injuries to other teams.

 

Having said that, who cares? This is still going to be an immensely interesting and fun team. Furthermore, I like the attitude that's developing. I think the Crew is noticeably tougher and on the ball. I suppose it's the maturation of the players and the exeprience of having to fight late last season. I'm going to enjoy the season and this team even though they're not going to the playoffs. I've waited this long; I can wait a little longer.

 

The only thing I would've done differently is left Bush down and called up another pitcher, probably Naverson. Realizing full well that Bush probably would be better. I'd just be in the mood to roll some dice at this point rather than trying to get by with just being solid.

 

The only blame here, for me, and I realize it's just me, is at Melvin's feet. I begged the dude to upgrade his starting pitching over the off season. Depth will never be quality. But that's water under the bridge and we need to get on with it by punishing the Astros for starters!

[kmcasper23]

I said this before and I will say it again: Johnson slid outside the box at first base. That is not hustle that is being stupid and is illegal. Even if they missed the tag he would have been out because of that. Shouldn't have happened if he wasn't being stupid.

[SeriesFinale]

I guess the umpire needs to post the rules for you, then.

[TooLiveBrew]

"Over? Nothing is over until WE decide it is. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

 

Just let him go -- he's on a roll.

 

 

I've said it a million times, you can replace 4th and 5th starters easily but no matter how much "starter depth" a team has if a one or a two goes down, you are in trouble. They are the most irreplaceable guys on the team. Nobody has aces or number 2 starters ready to take over.

I don't think this is anything we didn't know. Fortunately we have Bush to turn to before it's Weaver-time.

[RobertR]

I find it impossible to fault Reed Johnson for not giving up on the play. Yeah, the results stink but the Brewers will just have to find a way to cope.

 

With Braun, Hart, and Fielder on the team and the Brewers getting a chance to restock the system with multiple picks in the draft, LaPorta is a trade option come the deadline. I'd think Billy Beane would listen if the Brewers came enquiring about Rich Harden. Burnett or Halladay may also be available. If they're not in contention at the deadline, they probably wouldn't have been in contention anyways with Gallardo.

 

Anyone got an idea of the timetable for recovery? Could Gallardo feasibly be available for October?

 

Robert

[cnycerveceros]

My initial reaction was to wonder what the heck Prince was doing, but it was a messed up play all around. Like others have said I'd chalk it up to hustle in a rivalry game. Nothing dirty or stupid about it.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Let's get off the Reed Johnson bashing - not his fault or a dirty play at all. It's one of those freak plays where 200 things have to happen just right in order for something terrible to result.

 

I think as a baseball fan, you have to be disappointed when anyone gets seriously injured on any team - it obviously doesn't look good at all for Yo right now, but I'll wait until they have the full diagnosis once the swelling goes down before declaring the full season gone for Gallardo.

[homer]

I said this before and I will say it again: Johnson slid outside the box at first base. That is not hustle that is being stupid and is illegal. Even if they missed the tag he would have been out because of that. Shouldn't have happened if he wasn't being stupid.

As a college umpire, he was not outside of the basepath that he would have been called out. Furthermore, if a player without the ball (Yovani) is obstructing, it is acceptable for him to attempt to go around that player either by running or by sliding. I'll post rule chapters and interpretations if you feel the need to read them

I just watched the play on MLB.tv several times and I think it could have been worse had Johnson been in the basepath. If we need to blame someone, it's Yo for taking a bad angle to the base (really, he didn't even get to the base. He crossed the line several feet before he got there.) but even that's not really his fault because Prince sort of forced him to veer in that direction. Just a bad accident.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

It was a fluke play. Much like it was a fluke that I was born in Milwaukee. Life could've been easier if the Brewers weren't so good during my formative years...but it is the cross we bear. This will only make it sweeter when it finally happens.

 

If I can handle watching Turnbow in the eighth the other night down 13-5...I can handle anything. Where's my remote...give me some Brian and Bill...let's get this started. Let's win it for Yo!!!

[sargennm]

It was a fluke play. Much like it was a fluke that I was born in Milwaukee. Life could've been easier if the Brewers weren't so good during my formative years...but it is the cross we bear. This will only make it sweeter when it finally happens.

 

If I can handle watching Turnbow in the eighth the other night down 13-5...I can handle anything. Where's my remote...give me some Brian and Bill...let's get this started. Let's win it for Yo!!!

Good point.

 

 

It will eventually happen, right?

[lcbj68c]

I guess the umpire needs to post the rules for you, then.

Not that it will change his mind, but here goes. From my MLB umpire manual.

 

 

7.08 Any runner is out when-

(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball; or

(2) after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base; Any runner after reaching first base who leaves the baseline heading for his dugout or his position believing that there is no further play, may be declared out if the umpire judges the act of the runner to be considered abandoning his efforts to run the bases. Even though an out is called, the ball remains in play in regard to any other runner. This rule also covers the following and similar plays: Less than two out, score tied last of ninth inning, runner on first, batter hits a ball out of park for winning run, the runner on first passes second and thinking the home run automatically wins the game, cuts across diamond toward his bench as batter runner circles bases. In this case, the base runner would be called out "for abandoning his effort to touch the next base" and batter runner permitted to continue around bases to make his home run valid. If there are two out, home run would not count (see Rule 7.12). This is not an appeal play.

First of all, when he leaps for the bag, he is running on the line and maybe even INSIDE of the line. His leap subsequently attempts to avoid the charging Gallardo who does not even have the ball and could have been considered obstruction. Not likely ruled on, but had Johnson collided with a STANDING Gallardo in the basepath, only to be tagged out by Fielder in the back, obstruction on Gallardo would have almost assurd been my call and awarded Johnson first base. As it was, he was not outside of 3ft of the bag, as his outstretched hand gets a piece of the bag going by. No way Jerry Crawford would have called Johnson out on this play and would have been more inclined to obstruction on Gallardo as he was in the basepath WITHOUT THE BALL.

P.S. I'm not trying to be a jerk face on this issue, but as an umpire, I get a little peeved at the perceived ignorance of the uniformed.

[Fear The Chorizo]

"P.S. I'm not trying to be a jerk face on this issue, but as an umpire, I get a little peeved at the perceived ignorance of the uniformed. "

How dare you actually cite rules when making your arguments - broad generalizations and assumptions are much better!

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

It will eventually happen, right?

I sure hope so...

[splitterpfj]

"I'm not trying to be a jerk face"....that may be my favorite quote in the history of this site.

[Bring Back the Stein]

Much like it was a fluke that I was born in Milwaukee.

( Being born in Milwaukee is no fluke. It is a gift from God.)

[lcbj68c]

"I'm not trying to be a jerk face"....that may be my favorite quote in the history of this site.

I've never had a "footer" to all of my posts, but I may have to make that my standard disclaimer. Fortunately I know more about umpiring and events that are factual than opinions such as "Ned Yost; Yea or Nay?"

[mikerollins]

Anyone that has any clue about how sports work knows all the coach does is ask the trainer

 

"is he ok to play?"

 

if the trainer says

 

"yes"

 

the coach plays the player.

 

its coaching 101. never interfer with the medical staff.

 

0% of the blame on this goes to the coaches and manager.

[Fatter than Joey]

"Ned Yost; Yea or Nay?"

 

Well as long as we shift the blame from Reed Johnson to Yost I am OK with it.

[Brian the Automator]

The reality of the situation is that if you've torn your ACL, you aren't going to damage it FURTHER by pitching after the fact, unless it's partially torn (which doesn't appear to be the case). Are we really blaming Ned for this? There's plenty to pin on Ned over the years, but this isn't one of those situations.

[logan82]

lcbj68c wrote:

P.S. I'm not trying to be a jerk face on this issue, but as an umpire, I get a little peeved at the perceived ignorance of the uniformed.

Why should we let facts get in the way of a good arguement?http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Oldcity]

Anyone that has any clue about how sports work knows all the coach does is ask the trainer

Mike, I understand you generally defend Yost, but why do you need to go about this in such a condescending manner? And zero percent? That's just not accurate. Even after the game when most people figured Gallardo was fine, people were questioning leaving him in there. Yost is at least partially responsible for the decision to leave him in.

Now I don't really think the decision to leave him in was much of a factor in the injury, but who knows for sure.

 

[SeriesFinale]

Much like it was a fluke that I was born in Milwaukee.

( Being born in Milwaukee is no fluke. It is a gift from God.)

What about at Cudahy Memorial? Do I fall just outside the Domain of the Blessed?

 

My parents were living on National Avenue at the time if that helps get me through the Pearly Gates

[SeriesFinale]

The reality of the situation is that if you've torn your ACL, you aren't going to damage it FURTHER by pitching after the fact, unless it's partially torn (which doesn't appear to be the case). Are we really blaming Ned for this? There's plenty to pin on Ned over the years, but this isn't one of those situations.

Well speaking for myself, I was more about laying blame on the trainer and to a lesser extent, Ned, until they announced it was a complete tear. I'm sure someone will try and claim that it might've just been a partial tear until Ned let him pitch his way to a complete tear, but the fact that he didn't really feel much pain would indicate that it was completely torn right away.

 

I still have to question the wisdom of leaving him in--why even take the chance at this stage in the season when he clearly hyper-extended it. I know the trainer doesn't have access to MRI equipment on the field, but it seems strange that he didn't or couldn't pick up that something was wrong. We all thought it was awesome when he stayed in, apparently unhurt. It seemed like a miracle that he was OK--turned out just a mirage.

[mikerollins]

And zero percent? That's just not accurate******* yes it is. 0.0000000000000% coaches coach. trainers train. if the trainer gives the thumbs up sign the manager/coach should treat it as if nothing happened. its on the trainer to go tell the manager if a player can or can not go. its so basic I can't even belief anybody would think otherwise??? I don't think it mattered if they left him in or not because it was most likely already torn but that decision always in all sports falls under the job of the trainer. ask any trainer or coach at the college or professional level and they will tell you.