Has the short bench already cost the Brewers?

[DougJones43]

There have already been a handful of instances during the past week in which the Brewers have been forced to keep a pitcher in to hit (or even send up a pitcher as a pinch hitter) during the late innings of a close game. It happened again last night, when Gallardo hit with 1 runner on, and no outs. Gallardo popped out, and was replaced to begin the next half-inning. It seems pretty foolish to continually rely on pitchers going up to the plate in key, late inning situations of close games. Who knows if, with a professional hitter at the plate that inning, that could have been the inning the Brewers scraped out a run and won 1-0 instead of losing in extra inning?

It seems like we might have been better off with another position player during this past week or so. I think the Brewers could have survived without somebody like McClung, who has only made one appearance since April 17th.

[drezdn]

They should drop a pitcher or DL Ben Sheets, but McClung performs a role that few of the other relievers can do, ie. the Chuck Crim role of long relief, and in three of his four outings he's been effective.

 

If Sheets doesn't go to the DL though, there's a good chance Bush replaces him and McClung becomes the odd man out.

[BrewCrewForever]

I hated McClung but after his last two outings I kind of want to keep him around. But yeah if Sheets can't start Tuesday in Chicago which now seems like he won't with all I have heard they just need to DL him. Then you activate Cameron and then you have a bench of Kapler, Gwynn, Counsell and Rivera. I still think once Sheets is healthy we will somehow go with only 12 pitchers and add Dillon back to the bench.

[jeffy]

I still think once Sheets is healthy we will somehow go with only 12 pitchers and add Dillon back to the bench.

 

OTOH, if they have no Sheets for an extended period of time, maybe they should consider continuing with 14 (uninjured) pitchers. Despite the lack of pinch hitters this leaves, maybe it's more important to have enough pitching, especially if we continue to have lots of short starts and extra innings.

[brettac1]

Also, they should start planning for when Gabe Kapler starts to hit like Gabe Kapler again (probably already has begun that). In which case they are going to need to find another bench bat. Possible that they could just replace him with Dillon when they decide they need to make that move, though.

[steve267268]

Yes. I'm not sure how in the world this is the FIRST thread of its kind, but this needs to end ASAP. If we were blowing teams out it would be one thing, but we are constantly in close games that either do or threaten to go to extra innings, so we are always in that situation where we have to choose between letting the pitcher (or a different pitcher http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/mad.gif) bat or using up a bench player.

[TheBwaz]

We got Melvined last night by the 14 pitcher thing. Lefty pitcher, only Gwynn and Counsell on the bench aside from Rivera, Yo hits. I don't like 13 pitchers, 14 is insane. Sure, once in a blue moon you need all the pitchers, but like, what, once a year.

 

As we hear after many losses "it was just one of those games". I'll channel my innser Sparky here and say that it only took 2 of those games last year to keep us home in October.

[RU Rah Rah]

Is 14 pitchers (on the 25-man) an official all-time MLB record? Does Elias keep track of such things?

 

Whatever the case, it's borderline absurd.

[brettac1]

It's not even borderline absurd. It's flat-out absurd. I'll always say that even 12 is pushing it in April with all the off days. It should be essentially a 4 man rotation and a 7 man pen in April, IMO. I'll cede ground on 12, but 13 or especially 14 is nuts.

[Fatter than Joey]

14 Pitchers and 25 Cups of Coffee -- The Ned Yost Story.

[brewcrew00]

Shouldn't the 14 pitchers go on Doug?

[Fatter than Joey]

It should go on both of them

[DougJones43]

It should go on both of them

The other thing I find comical (well, mostly sad actually) is that while the Brewers are carrying FOURTEEN pitchers, Ned lets their 22-year-old stud prospect, fresh off the DL, throw 120 pitches.

[endaround]

Well he had too, he was up to bat the next inning!

[brewcrew00]

I agree he shouldn't have thrown that many, however his DL stint doesn't really factor. He was on for his knee and not his arm.

[JohnBriggs12]

Call me old school, but I actually remember a time when managers weren't afraid to use backup catchers to pinch hit. The odds of Kendall getting hurt and needing to be replaced in the last inning or two are astronomical. Besides when you have 14 pitchers and have a pitcher batting 8th you are already breaking the so-called rules. What's one more?

 

Bush was a catcher in college. If for some reason, you run out of catchers, you could stick him back there for an inning or two.

 

Use Mike Rivera.

[Mr QL]

Just DL Sheets and be done with it. Need that extra guy and you're not kidding anyone by having Sheets trying to come back.

[kramnoj]

It should go on both of them

The other thing I find comical (well, mostly sad actually) is that while the Brewers are carrying FOURTEEN pitchers, Ned lets their 22-year-old stud prospect, fresh off the DL, throw 120 pitches.

 

You make it sound like it was his first start after coming back from injury. Gallardo had already stretched out in AAA. He was great.

[jason21nl]

having a short bench hurt us tonight. Having to send up Counsell vs a lefty nstead of a right handed bat. Dillon would have looked nice to send up there. They do have Rivera but Ned will never use his back up catcher unless he is the last guy on the bench.

[silversurferr]

Yes. Tonight, Yost pinched Counsell against Hendrickson (a lefty) with a runner on third and one out, and Counsell whiffed. Surprise!

[kramnoj]

Yes. Tonight, Yost pinched Counsell against Hendrickson (a lefty) with a runner on third and one out, and Counsell whiffed. Surprise!

Every hitter not named Bulked Up Barry Bonds fails most of the time at the plate.

[brettac1]

Right, but there's no way that Yost pinch hits Counsell in that spot if he has the full complement of bench players.

 

EDIT: And certainly no way he lets Mike Rivera touch a bat on anything other than a day game after a night game.

[kramnoj]

Right, but there's no way that Yost pinch hits Counsell in that spot if he has the full complement of bench players.

 

EDIT: And certainly no way he lets Mike Rivera touch a bat on anything other than a day game after a night game.

 

The question that the thread title asks is if the short bench cost the Brewers. In this particular game it didn't, and criticizing one at-bat, when most at-bats don't have a positive outcome, seems silly to me.

[jason21nl]

it didn't cost us the win in this game, but it sure didn't help the situation any. You had Counsell vs the lefty, and shockingly Rivera came off the bench to hit. Both situations should be avoided but couldn't be because of the short bench.

[brettac1]

The point is that it certainly could have hurt the Brewers. Because of the short bench, Yost was forced to go with a player less likely to suceed than one he would have used (Dillon, I would guess?) in a crucial situation. Just because it ended up not costing them a game doesn't mean that it's optimal, or even not bad.