Interesting Bullpen Stat

[mikerollins]

I came across an interesting stat while trying to sort to see where the Brewers bullpen ERA ranked in the NL.

 

While the bullpen ERA (at 4.10) ranks 10th out of 16, the Brewers bullpen is 10th out of 16 teams in innings pitched (66.1). 10th out of 16 with 6 extra inning games. That leads me to believe the starters are doing a much better job than people around here are giving them credit for.

 

By comparison, the Pirates bullpen has already logged 78.2 innings, while the Cubs (surprisingly to me) have already logged 76.1.

 

Also, noticed they lead the NL in wins (6-2) and 2nd in saves with 8.

 

****EDIT!! Amazingly with yesterday's 7 innings of work, the Brewers jumped from 15th to 10th. While it's not anything to be worried about now, it is an obvious sign that continuing to get 5 IP out of our SP and continuing to go extra innings will eventually wear the bullpen down, no matter how well they are used. The Brewers now have 66.1 innings pitched out of their bullpen.

 

I might continue to update this as the season goes along, just because it is interesting to me. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

Our improved D has helped here as well. Less extra outs for the pitchers to make means less innings.

 

We must rank fairly well on "quality starts" too.

[pitchleague]

No, less extra outs for the pitchers means less pitches thrown, not necessarily less innings

[uwisfan]

the only problem is that all 60 innings go to 3 or 4 of the 8 bullpen ams

[dadofandrew]

the only problem is that all 60 innings go to 3 or 4 of the 8 bullpen ams

 

Except that it is not remotely true.

 

Turnbow has pitched the least, and has been least effective. I doubt a computer could put together a much better split. Torres is the only one who is too high, and he should not have pitched today, but Riske fell apart.

[mikerollins]

***the only problem is that all 60 innings go to 3 or 4 of the 8 bullpen ams **** You can't be serious. I guess I will break it down for you, but I'm sure I'll never hear from you again to follow up so it's kind of pointless. Or else you will come back and say "oh it just seems like it." That's my favorite one. Torres: 14.1(who has led league in both bullpen appearances and innings many times in his career) Riske: 10.1 Mota: 10 Gagne: 8.2 McClung: 7.2 Shouse: 7.2 Turnbow: 4.2 Stetter: 3.0 So if you want to use 3 of the bullpen arms as your premise then they are at 34.2 out of the 60. If you want to use 4 of the bullpen arms as your premise then they are at 43.1 out of the 60. I don't know that you could have scripted the first 20 games any better for the bullpen in terms of: 1. They have pitched the 2nd fewest innings in the league as a whole 2. They have been able to balance out the number of innings so nobody is far and away pitching more than anyone else

[dadofandrew]

I had trouble with my link, Mike, or i could have saved you a ton of typing.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[mikerollins]

I know. I should have just linked. It actually looked normal, but it never transfers correctly when I use my wife's Mac computer. Oh well. You get the point. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[bork]

That is interesting. Now if they could just learn to throw strikes. 5.6 BB/9 innings isn't going to cut it.

[dadofandrew]

No doubt. Those baserunners will cost them over the course of the year, even if thus far, it has not made a big impact.

 

The best pitch you can make is strike one.

[Thurston Fluff]

I wonder how people will spin Yost's use of the pen to show he's hurting the team by such balanced use. Both the amount, or lack there of, and the balance will really help in the long run. Less overwork now makes for a fresher pen in the dog days of August. That's really not a good sign for the Cubs. One does have to ask the abvious though. Why do we need 14 pitchers if the staff is one of the least used? But I guess after so many extra innings Melvin and Yost look like the smart ones on that count. Especially considering LaRussa was the one who had to play his firstbaseman at second because he ran out of infielders.

[Fatter than Joey]

But I guess after so many extra innings Melvin and Yost look like the smart ones on that count.

 

I don't think you look smart with 14 pitchers on the roster.

 

My major concern, is what in the wide world of sports are they doing with Turnbow -- why couldn't have he come in the game when the score was 8-3. If you don't trust him in that spot, he shouldn't be on your team.

[mikerollins]

My major concern, is what in the wide world of sports are they doing with Turnbow -- why couldn't have he come in the game when the score was 8-3. If you don't trust him in that spot, he shouldn't be on your team.

I think they are trying to see if he is going to be able to pitch in high-pressure situations this year or not, which is why they brought him into the tie game on Monday night. He continues to be a puzzle. They jumped his 2 fastballs for back to back doubles, but then he was as filthy has he's ever been getting the next 3 guys. That 1-out strikeout on the slider wasn't even fair. He could still be a very valuable piece to the bullpen as this year progresses.

 

Maybe they were afraid to put him in the day after getting tagged with a loss because he seems to be so fragile mentally. If he blows an 8-3 lead (or gives up a handfull of runs that lead to someone else blowing it) it could damage him mentally.

 

I think pitching him in close games and having him succeed could be the key to the bullpen's success this year.

[Thurston Fluff]

But I guess after so many extra innings Melvin and Yost look like the smart ones on that count.

 

I don't think you look smart with 14 pitchers on the roster.

 

My major concern, is what in the wide world of sports are they doing with Turnbow -- why couldn't have he come in the game when the score was 8-3. If you don't trust him in that spot, he shouldn't be on your team.

 

13 really since you can't really count Sheets rihgt now. But they used a lot of pitchers recently and now are a little thin in the pen as was mentioned in the JS this morning. One of the critisisms of Yost's use of Turnbow was his inability to go back to back days yet Ned would do so. Now that they don't use him and he gets it for not using him? No win situation I guess. But lets not get too far down this road in this thread since it would ruin an otherwise intereting point about our pen.

I still think it does point to good things later in the year. I wonder if Ned trying to get to know his players has much to do with the even workload. Not only has he used his pitchers pretty evenly the ones he hasn't used as much are ones who were on the team last year. Shouse being the exception since his role was preordained.

[brewers19]

You can't be serious. I guess I will break it down for you, but I'm sure I'll never hear from you again to follow up so it's kind of pointless. Or else you will come back and say "oh it just seems like it." That's my favorite one.

 

Let me remind you that we require all members to treat each other with respect, and your post most certainly did not comply with that.

[mikerollins]

Let me remind you that we require all members to treat each other with respect, and your post most certainly did not observe that.

He didn't treat me with respect by ignorantly and condescendingly stating that 3 pitchers have accounted for all 60 innings pitched, when that wasn't even remotely accurate. I feel that is more disrespectful than what I said back.

[jason21nl]

I think pitching Turnbow in any high leverage situation is asking for trouble and needs to be avoided. Pitch him when you have a 4 or 5 run lead and let him build his confidence. I think its kinda like a hitter, when they are struggling, sometimes a little bloop or infield hit all of a sudden gets them going. If Turnbow can pitch a clean inning or 2 in a couple out of reach games, he might get some confidence back..

 

 

and if you want to save your bullpen from over use, you might want to try throwing your long man out there to see if he can close out the game. Perfect time for McClung to pitch was yesterday in the 7th.

[Bucky Rules]

Let me remind you that we require all members to treat each other with respect, and your post most certainly did not observe that.

He didn't treat me with respect by ignorantly and condescendingly stating that 3 pitchers have accounted for all 60 innings pitched, when that wasn't even remotely accurate. I feel that is more disrespectful than what I said back.

Really? His comment may be inaccurate - and maybe even ignorant as you suggest, but it certainly wasn't condescending and disrespectful. There was plenty of condescension in this thread, but it wasn't coming from him.

[mikerollins]

That's a great point about Turnbow. The problem is that they haven't had ANY blowouts lately. They've seen so many games tight and close late. Then he goes a week without pitching and has come into the blowout games and struggled, but I think there is some truth to the idea that he needs to find some consistency by pitching every few days for awhile, even if that means pitching in some close games.

[mikerollins]

Perfect time for McClung to pitch was yesterday in the 7th.

The problem was that Riske had already pitched in the 6th when it was 4-3. He had already warmed up and throw pitches, so even though it was 8-3, it made more sense to use him to pitch the 7th and hopefully not have to waste anyone else because he is thought to be the best bullpen arm by a lot of people.

 

Then they could have used McClung or Turnbow when it was 8-3 in the 8th and 9th inning.

 

The problem came when Riske gave up the double and two walks to load the bases and then they had to go to Shouse and then he gave up 3 singles.

 

If Riske gets through the 7th inning. McClung or Turnbow probably pitches the 8th and or 9th.

[jazzytrav]

I want to see Turnbow come into a game and pitch an inning of all breaking balls. As a matter of fact, I would like to see him do that 2 games in a row. All breaking balls, all inning long. Somehow or another he needs to get that pitch into hitter's minds like he did in '05. Otherwise, his straight-as-an-arrow fastball right down the middle of the plate is useless no matter how fast it is. He could throw it 120 MPH, but they'll still hit it unless there's that thought in the back of their mind that it just might fall off at the last second.

[JohnBriggs12]

Riske had a real bad outing yesterday. But one thing to keep in mind about Riske is that he's a notoriously slow starter. Last year his April ERA was about 7, then he went the entire months of May, June and July giving up a total of 4 runs.

[mikerollins]

Riske had a real bad outing yesterday. But one thing to keep in mind about Riske is that he's a notoriously slow starter. Last year his April ERA was about 7, then he went the entire months of May, June and July giving up a total of 4 runs.

That's good to hear! I wasn't doubting Riske, but rather saying since he already came into the game when it was 4-3 and got the last out of the 6th, I think Yost thought he was actually saving relief pitchers by letting him go the 7th and maybe 8th as well. I don't think he planned on Riske getting in trouble and Shouse getting in more trouble, etc.

[TooLiveBrew]

I think it should be noted that his 2007 is kind of a fluky outlier, though. Riske's strand rate iirc last season was 90% -- and not even guys like him (that do appear to have some talent in terms of 'stranding') can keep that up.

 

That said, Briggs is right on in terms of Riske's career month-by-month success. For whatever reason, he hasn't pitched all that well in Aprils. Then again, the largest sample of any month is only 92 innings (August), so it might just be coincidental.

[dadofandrew]

If McClung pitches the 7th, Turnbow has to pitch the 12th.

 

Even with 24 hours to think about it, still not as well thought out as Yost did live.