OF Gabe Gross traded to Tampa Bay for minor league pitcher Josh Butler

[areacodes]

Did any one notice on TV right after the game Gross was coming back to the dugout and a man with a tie came and grabbed Gross to tell him about the trade. I wasn't one of his biggest fans, but i wish him all the best.

I'm pretty sure that guy was the sideline reporter for the Cards. I'm in SW Illinois for the week and have been able to watch the games down here and they were interviewing Gross after the game.

 

[RU Rah Rah]

Baseball America's take on Butler...

 

At his best, Butler has an average fastball that can touch 94 mph and two good breaking balls. With his delivery and frame I always thought he was best suited as a middle guy but he is athletic and could exceed my expectations. I thought it was a good deal for both clubs as I've indicated.

Sounds like he might worth a look.

[pete]

According to Dictionary.com Mediocre is not average.

 

 

Off topic, I know, but I can't resist comment.

 

 

Etymologically, mediocre is derived from Latin. medius ("middle") + ocris ("jagged mountain") = mediocris

(Literally - "halfway up the mountain" Figuratively - "of middling height or state")

 

 

I just wanted to take a moment to say shame on dictionary.com for empowering the legions of humans who have misused and continue to misuse this relatively

simple concept. I understand, they probably view their task as chronicling the actual use of language, not dictating its proper use. There's even

something to be said for this perspective. But when the root of a word is obviously middle, to take it to mean "rather poor" is patently absurd.

 

 

Etymology is the study of the development of language, not just its origins. Mediocre means not very good. I have no idea whether that comports with its original usage, not that its relevant. Not very good and rather poor can certainly be the same and it certainly isn't wildly unreasonable, patented or not.

 

 

Another note for everyone: stop saying "decimated" when you mean "utterly destroyed" or "annihilated". Decimation is a precise

term that means losing 1/10 of one's ground forces in a particular ground battle. There was a time when 10% losses were very significant, before we

invented tanks and machine guns and such. Anyway, your favorite football team isn't "decimated" when they're losing 45-0, but you could say

the defense has been "decimated" if the free safety goes down with a ligament tear.

 

 

Seriously, do you think anyone uses the historic meaning of decimate, which was a punishment of one in ten, not a casualty of one in ten.

[brewers19]

What an incredibly nerdy tangent we've gone on.

[pete]

Stevo wrote:

 

 

I'd wager with anyone that Gross will significantly outperform Gwynn this season.

 

 

Well, Gwynn has to take a ball he should catch and slap it over the fence to turn it into a critical two run home run for starters.

[theavrock]

Stevo wrote:

 

 

I'd wager with anyone that Gross will significantly outperform Gwynn this season.

 

Well, Gwynn has to take a ball he should catch and slap it over the fence to turn it into a critical two run home run for starters.

 

Yeah what a routine play Gabe messed up there. WHat an idiot!

[Glennron]

Well, Gwynn has to take a ball he should catch and slap it over the fence to turn it into a critical two run home run for starters.

I'm like 95% sure Gabe Gross insulted someone in your family. If you honestly think that pretty much robbing a home run is a routine play, then you have extremely lofty expectations of substiutute outfielders. Gross obviously isn't a very good centerfielder, but some people make it seem like Gwynn = Mays on defense and Gabe Gross runs around with one leg.

[jazzytrav]

I'm like 95% sure Gabe Gross insulted someone in your family.

I'm starting to feel this way about a lot of people that didn't like Gabe Gross. Especially the guys on WSSP. Seriously, you'd think this trade just made us a lock for WS Champs by the way they reacted. Gabe Gross was a great person, a great clubhouse guy, and a decent all-around player. He doesn't do anything particularly great, but he's still valuable for power, speed, defense, and plate discipline. It's not like he dominates, but a 4th/5th outfielder isn't supposed to dominate. He's supposed to be able to come in and cover a lot of bases, no pun intended. Gabe Gross did that, and he was valuable to this team in his time here. I will miss him as both a player and just a genuinely nice guy.

[Ennder]

It mostly comes down to how much you value batting average and gracefullness in the field. Gross is statistically a decent OF and I think he looked fine out there but his mishaps generally looked pretty bad. His AVG is low but everything else is good and a lot of people still think AVG is one of the more important stats for some odd reason.

[Brawndo the Thirst Mutilat]

odd reason = anti-intellectualism

[MJLiverock]

For me Gross just seemed to be way overvalued. I probably woulnd't care one way or the other about him until reading the comments on this site about him. Yeah, I'll admit I like AVG but I hve always like OBP, but it is not like Gross was some great OBP machine. His career .343 OBP against mainly RH's isn't that dominating for a pure platoon guy. As has been pointed out guys like Kevin Mench and Wes Helms put numbers like that in their platoon roles and were hated for it.

 

As for Gwynn, I like him because he can actually play CF and isn't needed for power on this team full of power hitters. And for what is worth, Gwynn's first 200 AB's are pretty similar to Gross's first 200 AB's in the Majors, both put up an OPS+ of around 66 or 67, not very good but Gross did improve and Gwynn seems to be improving as well. Gross was also a year older than Gwynn at those same stages.

 

Gross arrived in Milwaukee and put up a pretty good year in 2006 but regressed mightily in 2007 and 2008 wasn't off to a great start either at the plate coupled with his subpar defense and pending arby eligibility he was the odd man out. If Gwynn develops into a .350 OBP guy which many believe he can then he has equalled Gross's best attribute. Gross has better power but Gwynn plays better defense and base running which this team needs more than another power stroke.

[jjfanec]

I feel like ever year there needs to be a guy who is the whipping boy (aka Wes Helms, Chad Moeller) and often it is for good reason. For some reason Gross was chosen to be that guy this year by a lot of people. Even when he started to have better numbers the past couple games people were all over him. It was funny because with Prince, Braun, Hardy, and Weeks all struggling there was enough blame to go around but for some odd reason Gross took the brunt of it in a lot of cases. Now I know people have been calling out the other guys, but you would think Gross was an everyday starter who single-handedly costed the Crew like 5 games the way people trashed him. I was one of the people who wanted him as a replacement to Jenkins so I am biased but I never got the hate for him.

[MoneyballMan]

I always wished that he had a real shot at regular playing time to see what he could do. I really believe he has the ability to be more than a 4th/5th outfielder, but hasn't been in a situation to take advantage of the opportunity. More than anything, I'd like to see him get real playing time if for no other reason than to see if I was right or wrong. And I guess if I am wrong, better that he gets that opportunity with TB than us! But I think I'm right - I just have a sense that he could be a solid starting centerfielder.

[RobertR]

I must have missed it when Gwynn and Kapler showed that they could hit for average over the course of a full season. When was that?

It's not so much that I'm enamored with Gross or don't think the Brewers got fair value back. I'm just puzzled that people are that confident in Gwynn and Kapler. One was out of baseball last year and the other struggled mightily when pitchers adjusted to him. Seriously, right now I think the Brewers have a pretty thin and limited bench, even before considering the overabundance of pitchers on the roster. Counsell may very well turn out to be the best hitter on the bench going forward.

Robert

[TooLiveBrew]

Gabe Gross was a great person, a great clubhouse guy, and a decent all-around player.

Very well-said.

 

 

It's not so much that I'm enamored with Gross or don't think the Brewers got fair value back. I'm just puzzled that people are that confident in Gwynn and Kapler.

 

Yeah, agreed. With some more time to think on it, I've accepted that Melvin seems to have added a nice arm for a bench player (for us). That's going to wind up being a 'win' of a trade more often than not. Why people "know" that Gwynn & Kapler will be fine is beyond me. Obviously I hope the duo does well, but it seems we just sent our best bench player away, thinning out the backups in a season in which we're gunning for it all. I go back to wallus's good point in post #60 that Iribarren will be back soon.

[endaround]

Robert-

 

I think if Yost starts to use Dillon correctly, ie he is still a better hitter than Gwynn or Counell even with the platoon advantage it will be ok. I just don't trust that

[sbrylski]

Words mean whatever the audience interprets them to mean. There's no right or wrong meaning for a word. You can both be right.

[brewers19]

Here ya go, TLB.