Miller Park Location

[paul253]

I was thinking about this the other day and wanted to bring it up. Anyone who has ever been to Miller Park knows that it is literally in the middle of nowhere. It is surrounded by acres and acres of parking lots and frewways. Is this the only stadium in the majors that was built like that? Also, before it was built, I know many local politicians wanted it built downtown and actually had a site picked out. Does anyone remember where the site was (as specific as possible, including street names). i know it was on the river somewhere...was it right around where they built that new Manpower building? I wonder why it was never built downtown. The only 2 advantages I see with its current location are parking and the ability to tailgate. But just think how different the city would be if it was downtown. I have a job where i work downtown at night, and downtown on Sunday nights-Wednesday nights is just bare empty. The local ecomony would have taken a big shot in the arm if it were down there I also think downtown would be much more developed, with a lot more hotels, bars and restaraunts.

[bball123h2]

Of the stadiums I have personally been to, Kansas City seems to be the closest. Arrowhead and Kaufmann share a massive parking lot, with not too much around the stadium. Tampa is somewhat similar as well, and RFK was, though it is not used for baseball anymore.

[billyhallfan]

umm...a lot of stadiums are like that, philly is in the middle of a parking lot with, the eagles, flyers, sixers, and phantoms buildings right there as well...

 

it is not like us cellular is in the best part of town...

 

and like bball said the k is surrounded by parking lots, and rfk did have it in the center of cement too...

[endaround]

There was an attempt to switch it out with the Summerfest grounds, which makes a lot of sense to have that prime land used more than 21 days a year and would have given summer fest enough room

[NeedMoreFans]

I'm going to vouch for the current location. First of all, Miller Park isn't that far from downtown. It's only about 5-10 minutes from the middle of downtown, and it's a really easy drive to the park. Any hotel/business development that may have occurred downtown because of the stadium could have still happened with the current location of the stadium. I'm not totally convinced that tons of new business would have popped up because of the stadium alone. Also, downtown Milwaukee isn't in horrible shape economically. It's bounced back after a downturn back in the early 1990's. Grand Avenue has higher occupancy, people have moved back downtown, and the Midwest Airlines Center has helped spur development. Baseball won't fill hotels that often. Sure, there are times when people come up from St. Louis or come from Minnesota, but there are plenty of hotels for these people to stay at. If anything, hotel development should occur to help bolster the convention center. I'd argue that the stadium has helped spur some economic growth. I'd argue that the Target, Menards, Chili's, etc... just south of the stadium has been helped by the stadium. There are also lots of bars on Blue Mound and National that get lots of game-day business.

 

Also, as trivial as it sounds, parking is a pretty big issue. Imagine it's July 3...Summerfest is in full swing, the fireworks are about to go off, and there is a Brewer game downtown. Where do people park? Yeah, there may only be 21 days where the Summerfest grounds are in use, but those events take up tons of parking. If the stadium was downtown, the team wouldn't be able to take in as much parking revenue. Also, think how easy it is to get in and out of the stadium. Yeah, there is traffic to wait for getting out, but for all intents and purposes, it doesn't get much easier. Also, think of the nightmare that would have occurred with so game traffic trying to get downtown while the Marquette Interchange has been under construction (granted, this hasn't been a big hassle to locals, but to out-of-towners).

 

So, obviously I'm happy with it being out in the middle of nowhere.

[thebruce44]

I think that a lot of people wanted the stadium built where MSOE built their big athletic facility (The Kern Center?). Its where that church used to be just across the street from Brothers and the Corner on Water Street.

 

I like MP where it is. When I went to Marquette, I could just catch a bus after class on Wisconsin St. that would take me from my door to the game and back super easy. We could have a few drinks before hand, a few at the game, then head out to Marquette bars or down to Water after the game. I know a lot of younger people did and still do the same thing. If they ever got that light rail system up and running people would probably use that more, but the bus makes it easy to enjoy a game, then head out downtown afterwards without driving.

 

As has been said though, the tailgating culture means you can't have the stadium downtown. KC is probably the same. Lets face it, you can't tailgate in a parking garage.

[paul253]

I am not advocating having put it downtown, i think there are major advantages and disadvantages to both. Obviously the current setup allows for tailgating and easier access to parking and to getting there. And those mentioning traffic are absolutlely right. Milwaukee's freeway system is a disaster right now. Most directions have one way in and one way out. I think for the fan, the stadium is better where it is, but for the city it would have been much better downtown. From what i've heard, Cleveland and Balitmore's downtown were helped out a lot by the stadium. I disagree that there wouldn't be more developement downtown. I think there would be a ton of bars and restaraunts opening up by the stadium. I also think public transporation would become more popular as well, bringing in more money for the county. From where I live right now, I would not drive to a game if the stadium was downtown. Parking would be tight, but you know more structures would open. Like I said, downtown is bare sunday-wednesday. There isnt even any traffic down there. Like I said, I am not trying to suggest it should have been built downtown, but I like where the discussion is going and I'd like to play devil's advocate.

 

[homer]

The proposed location was on Water and Juneau. The site where MSOE has their athletic facility is part of that parcel. I would have bought a full season ticket package had they done that.

[paul253]

That was before they tore down the Park East Freeway right? So that would to have been part of the deal. That would have been a nice location. Right on the river. Not far from
the lakefront. I think with the tearing down of that freeway they could have made some pretty decent streets right to I43, meaning freeway access wouldn't have been terrible. All those bars on Water St would have gotten a major boost in business, and i think you'd have seen more developement to the north of that area, where right now there are some empty warehouses and a few little bars and shops.

[dadofandrew]

The fact that there has been no development in the area is probably directly related to the lack of planning by the city and county.

 

Remember, there are still many abandoned factories and warehouses right in the middle of the city, we're not talking about a city that believes in a these modern things like incentive zones and such.

[temke]

i always bring this situation up:

 

ever been downtown when there is a bucks game plus an event at us cellular? usually not a pretty picture.

 

the big problem is how the land in the menomonee valley was zoned. i wonder what could have popped up in there if some of it was zoned commercial. with as popular as the bluemound ave bars are, i would think that there would be some serious business for anyone who opened a restaurant/tavern on canal street.

 

i agree that it would have been good for the economy, but the current location is near perfect for the fan.

[homer]

"The fact that there has been no development in the area is probably directly related to the lack of planning by the city and county."

 

Again, completely false. I'm going to start providing links since you seem to ignore people that actually live(d) in the city.

 

http://www.mkedcd.org/parkeast/index.html

 

"Remember, there are still many abandoned factories and warehouses right in the middle of the city, we're not talking about a city that believes in a these modern things like incentive zones and such."

 

Do you know what a TIF district is? Milwaukee has given them out to pretty much anyone that's asked - except for the original Pabst Brewery developers.

[Invader3K]

As someone who doesn't live in the Milwaukee area, I appreciate where the stadium is now. If it was downtown, it would be way less convenient for all the statewide fans to get to the park. Just saying...

[tristarscoop]

I wonder where people think new bars and parking structures would be built downtown. There is not empty, available land and if they could find places willing to sell, it wouldn't be cheap. Do we really want a downtown filled with MORE parking structures? Between the lake, river and the already set-up neighborhoods, there is a finite area in which to expand. You would also be completely killing the tailgate culture that exists.

 

In addition, think of the HUGE amounts of revenue the Brewers lose because people are paying the privately owned structures for parking instead of the Brewers. Think about weeknight games where the parking structures filled by the downtown work crowd don't empty until 5 or 6.

 

My first instinct when I hear all these blanket thoughts about having the stadium downtown is to question where the poster lives - I'm not sure if that's presumptuous, but I feel like if someone were at all familiar with the Park East area or the area around the stadium (Bluemound, State, Miller Park Way, National) they wouldn't/couldn't question the choice.

[endaround]

"The fact that there has been no development in the area is probably directly related to the lack of planning by the city and county."

 

Again, completely false. I'm going to start providing links since you seem to ignore people that actually live(d) in the city.

 

http://www.mkedcd.org/parkeast/index.html

 

"Remember, there are still many abandoned factories and warehouses right in the middle of the city, we're not talking about a city that believes in a these modern things like incentive zones and such."

 

Do you know what a TIF district is? Milwaukee has given them out to pretty much anyone that's asked - except for the original Pabst Brewery developers.

Al ssems to get all his city info from talk radio. Yeah the county is screwed up now, but thats because its catering to Wauwatosa over the rest of the county

 

[paul253]

I wonder where people think new bars and parking structures would be built downtown. There is not empty, available land and if they could find places willing to sell, it wouldn't be cheap

 

Um....have you been downtown in the last 4 years? All there is is open land. The entire North End is empty. The Freeway was torn down and NONE of that land has been developed yet. That same freeway would have been torn down for Miller Park, so the same land would have been there. Just off of Water St north of downtown is a big empty warehouse. Not to mention all of the condos built recently that could have been made into something else.

 

My first instinct when I hear all these blanket thoughts about having the stadium downtown is to question where the poster lives - I'm not sure if that's presumptuous, but I feel like if someone were at all familiar with the Park East area or the area around the stadium (Bluemound, State, Miller Park Way, National) they wouldn't/couldn't question the choice.

 

If you are referring to me, as I pointed out, I work downtown and I live about 5 minutes from there. Thats how I know how much land is still available.

 

Do you know what a TIF district is? Milwaukee has given them out to pretty much anyone that's asked - except for the original Pabst Brewery developers.

I dont mean to change subjects, but you seem kind of bitter about this. You forget to mention though just how much money would have been involved in the TIF for the Pabst Brewery. IIRC it was between $70 and $80 million, just an absurd amount. It is more or less a grant too, b/c the city would get the money back through property taxes, meaning they basically wouldn't be receiving any tax revenue from it until the loan is paid off 20 years later, and who knows if it will even have been around 20 years later.

[Diskono]

I appreciate the fact that getting in and out of Miller Park is very quick and easy. County Stadium was worse, even when game attendances were about half what they are now.

[Invader3K]

I agree...they did a pretty good job designing the parking lots and exits, at least from my experience. Once in a while you have some insane backup, but for the most part, getting in and out is relatively quick and painless.

[Patrick425]

i always bring this situation up:

 

ever been downtown when there is a bucks game plus an event at us cellular? usually not a pretty picture.

I completely agree. Not to mention that the bucks draw what?...10K? 18K if they sell out? Now take 40K and try to imagine that parking situation. I'm guessing that my family would choose not to renew our season tickets and would probably go to less games. No thank you. When I leave a game I don't want to be stuck in a traffic mess for another hour or more.

[homer]

"Do you know what a TIF district is? Milwaukee has given them out to pretty much anyone that's asked - except for the original Pabst Brewery developers.

 

I dont mean to change subjects, but you seem kind of bitter about this. You forget to mention though just how much money would have been involved in the TIF for the Pabst Brewery. IIRC it was between $70 and $80 million, just an absurd amount. It is more or less a grant too, b/c the city would get the money back through property taxes, meaning they basically wouldn't be receiving any tax revenue from it until the loan is paid off 20 years later, and who knows if it will even have been around 20 years later. "

 

No, not bitter really. I supported that particular TIF but it was a fairly risky venture so I understand why the city balked.

[tristarscoop]

I wonder where people think new bars and parking structures would be built downtown. There is not empty, available land and if they could find places willing to sell, it wouldn't be cheap

 

Um....have you been downtown in the last 4 years? All there is is open land. The entire North End is empty. The Freeway was torn down and NONE of that land has been developed yet. That same freeway would have been torn down for Miller Park, so the same land would have been there. Just off of Water St north of downtown is a big empty warehouse. Not to mention all of the condos built recently that could have been made into something else.

The entire North End is under construction.

 

[paul253]

The entire North End is under construction.

 

Its actually not. Those big parcels of land west of the river surrounded by Juneau and McKinley and from I believe 3rd to 6th are all untouched. They have plans for them, I believe, but not under construction yet. Even that though proves my point...there was plenty of land to develop bars and restaraunts and hotels and whatever else. You have to think in terms of back then, what.....5 years ago when it would have been built downtown. All that land that is finally being developed now would have been available for development back then.

[Chio151]

Personally, I love where the Park is. It makes it very accessible to the entire metro area and continues the tradtitional tailgaiting. The Park East area is well suited for the mega-millions that it's pulling in for luxury condos, hotels, office space, and entertainment. I'm glad it wasn't placed there. The only other area, in my mind, that would've worked out is some of the open industrial district (now dwindling) in the third or fifth wards. Considering how well that area is turning out, it's probably okay that a park wasn't built there.

[drezdn]

I'm kind of conflicted about the whole thing. I've lived just north of the East Town/Park East area for a while now, and if the stadium were built in there, I could have easily walked to games. On the other hand, even after an Admirals game the traffic around the Bradley Center area can be frustrating.

 

As someone who gets annoyed as it is now trying to find a parking spot on a Friday or Saturday night, it would almost be impossible to park on the lower East Side if they would have built the stadium in that corridor downtown.

 

There's plenty of building going on in the area too, just not where the Park East was. There's the North End Development just north of where the freeway was in the old Pfister and Vogel spot. There's the condos popping up along Commerce St... There's the hotel they're building on Water and Juneau, plus the one they're planning on Edison St. Those are on top of all the buildings that were recently completed, like Kern Center, the building that went up on Ogden and Milwaukee. The Gallun tannery, Goodlife restaurant, and the condos kiddie corner from Goodlife.

 

There might have been even more condos built if they built the stadium downtown, but it could have also made the area even harder to afford for the average person.

 

Does anyone actually have measurements of how much space a stadium would take up? Aside from the area between 4th and 6th street and McKinley and Juneau (which was opened up after they tore down the freeway) there's not a lot of open space.

[owbc]

I'm a supporter of the current location.

 

I agree, a downtown stadium would have benefited the Milwaukee downtown economy much more than the current location. However, I know that no matter how much they could rearrange traffic corridors, there is no way that there would not be major traffic jams. Traffic jams mean people leave the game early (see Dodger Stadium). The Miller Park lots were horrible for several years before the situation was sorted out (they still are during Cubs games since the Illinois people aren't familiar with the system).

 

I think they should bring the entertainment to the Miller Park area and I'm surprised that they haven't yet. I always envisioned something similar to Moorland Rd. near I-94 and Brookfield Square. There would be maybe two 10-15 story hotels surrounded by several restaurants/bars, along with a parking structure. This would alleviate the parking overflow concerns, since people going to the restaurants before the game could park out of the current lots and still be within walking distance. Perhaps the hotels/restaurants could provide a shuttle to the game. The entire thing would be Brewers-themed, of course. I know they have built a few things behind the East lots, but I still think there is room to do something like this. I heard a water park mentioned, but I like the idea of more restaurants better to accommodate the game day crowd.