Yo stays....who goes?

[kramnoj]

"The idea of taking mediocre from the #3 through #5 is a recipe for finishing in the middle of the division or lower."

 

We should probably remove mediocre from the English language, since people use it to mean different things. If the Brewers got average pitching from their 3-5 spot, I would be quite happy, and I'm fairly sure that would put them in a good spot to compete for the division.

[littledoc83]

Is there some sort of deadline in which this decision has to be made? Yost declined to comment after the game today. Any idea of when the decision will be announced?

 

I was also wondering if there was a deadline as to when the brewers would have to let Cincy know who was starting?

[Brewer Fever]

I read elsewhere that Bush was up in the pen warming in the 10th should Gagne have allowed the tying run to score. First of all, is that true? If so that could be a sign that Bush is the new long man. I sure hope so, he's a 2-pitch pitcher best suited for the pen, imo.

[endaround]

Bush as the long man is such a waste it isn't funny

[jazzytrav]

The idea of taking mediocre from the #3 through #5 is a recipe for finishing in the middle of the division or lower. I doubt he'll be in the league a long time.

I think the recipe for being at the top of the division is having mediocre from #3 through #5 and having them play out of their minds. Can you name off-hand the #3 starter for the World Series teams for the last few years? I'll bet anything there are some teams in there with a #4 starter not much better than Dave Bush.

[Baldkin]

Jeff Suppan of the Cardinals? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Gopher74]

Bush had excellent defense behind him last start. They bailed him out a couple of times. He was below mediocre, which is much better than he was the first two times.

 

That being said, he probably stays due to his relationship with Yost and perhaps others in the organization. He probably has to lose 7, 8, 9 games in a row or 12 of 14 or something like that before he suffers any consequences.

Yea, his last start, and the result was a quality start.

 

However in his first two his defense was absolutely terrible.

 

Braun mis-played a ball and put runners on 2nd and 3rd with no outs. 2 Runs came in that inning, 2 ER's because Braun never touched the ball. He would have likely gotten out of it without any runs.

 

Then his second start two runs scored when Hart decided to hold the ball in RF and let Phillips I believe it was tag up on a shallow pop up, threw it past the catcher and 2 MORE runs scored. He should have 4 fewer ER's and his ERA should be better than either Parra or Villanueva's.

 

Not saying he's pitched well, or that he should stay up, but the defense behind him the first two games was awful, and when he did get good D, he threw a good game. Of course, Dave Bush walking hitters doesn't help, but he doesn't normally do that, and as such, likely won't.

I do fine your last sentence to be totally without merit and baseless. If they're considering taking him out now when he's pitched about as well as Parra and Villy, then I think they'd take him out before he reached 14 straight losses..unless you're trying to be funny.

[Gopher74]

Dave Bush is on the team because of the bias of Yost. The idea of taking mediocre from the #3 through #5 is a recipe for finishing in the middle of the division or lower. I doubt he'll be in the league a long time.

 

People point out that there was one play that wasn't perfect, but never mention when the defense bails him out.

Ok, I get it. You're just making baseless comments with absolutely nothing to substantiate them.

 

Bush won't be in the league a long time? Yes, guys who throw strikes, throw 200 innings a year, and maintain an ERA around the league average usually have a very short run in the big leagues.

Bush is one of the better number 5's in baseball, so I'm sorry to tell you, he's not in the big leagues because of this perceived bias that the entire Brewers organization has allowed to their detriment. He's also going to stick in the big leagues for a long time provided he stay healthy.

 

As for the comment that Bush as a long man is such a waste...well, maybe, but if he's our 5th best starter, what do you want to do with him? I agree that to suggest he's not a solid pitcher who's at least league average for the most part, or that he's only up because of Yost is not even a little true, but we've got 5 better, and if he could play the same role that Villanueva had last year, he could become a huge X-factor for this team.

[berniebrewer4life]

Bush is moved to the 'pen, McClung is sent down.

[Gopher74]

Bush is moved to the 'pen, McClung is sent down.

Except that McClung would be claimed on waivers making the situation all that much more difficult.

 

I think that the Brewers, given how they've used Turnbow which I think is a mistake, would rather hang onto McClung at this point rather than Turnbow. McClung has absolutely filthy stuff, and if he can throw his breaking ball over consistently for strikes, he could be the Brewers next closer, or even slide back into that rotation and be a huge get for this team. of course that's not likely, but it's more likely at this point than Turnbow becoming the closer again which I don't believe will happen.

 

Plus T-bow makes 3.25 million, and I'm sure the Tigers, Phillies, Indians...any number of teams would gladly take that contract off our hands for him.

 

 

 

I've gone back and forth on McClung but at this point, I'd like to see how it plays out rather than watch him become the next Bobby Jenks for another team.

 

[berniebrewer4life]

Bush is moved to the 'pen, McClung is sent down.

Except that McClung would be claimed on waivers making the situation all that much more difficult.

 

I think that the Brewers, given how they've used Turnbow which I think is a mistake, would rather hang onto McClung at this point rather than Turnbow. McClung has absolutely filthy stuff, and if he can throw his breaking ball over consistently for strikes, he could be the Brewers next closer, or even slide back into that rotation and be a huge get for this team. of course that's not likely, but it's more likely at this point than Turnbow becoming the closer again which I don't believe will happen.

 

Plus T-bow makes 3.25 million, and I'm sure the Tigers, Phillies, Indians...any number of teams would gladly take that contract off our hands for him.

 

 

 

I've gone back and forth on McClung but at this point, I'd like to see how it plays out rather than watch him become the next Bobby Jenks for another team.

 

I guess you have a higher opinion of McClung than i do. I don't see him getting claimed.

[Gopher74]

I guess you have a higher opinion of McClung than i do. I don't see him getting claimed.

 

I don't think there's really any question that he gets claimed at this point. I thought that was sorta a foregone conclusion. Especially after his last start. In fact, I believe that was Melvin's reason for taking him with the team out of ST'ing, because they knew if they tried to put him through waivers, hed' have gotten claimed.

 

Guys who can throw triple digits, and have a nasty breaking ball, even if it's inconsistent will likely get claimed. Even more likely if they've started to show signs of being able to command that pitch.

 

By the way, he threw one, I think it was to Lohse, but it was one of the pretties curve balls I've ever seen. It caught the inside corner and it looked like it was going to be about a foot high and a foot inside.

 

He's definitely impressive when it's going....and I readily acknowledge that he can be equally ugly, but my opinion that he'll get claimed has more to do with what those in the know have said than my opinion of him.

 

To be honest, I was upset that we kept him and dumped Vargas out of ST'ing thinking Vargas could really excel in that role, but again, after watching him a couple times, I at least understand the motivation.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Yeah you can't teach velocity, but I don't think he'll ever locate well enough to be a closer, and the Brewers don't have time to waste on closers on projects like Seth.

[Gopher74]

Yeah you can't teach velocity, but I don't think he'll ever locate well enough to be a closer, and the Brewers don't have time to waste on closers on projects like Seth.

Well, they're obviously making time as he's on the roster as we speak despite not being one of the 12 best breaking camp.

 

[mikemercury]

No way McClung goes unclaimed. Dennis Sarfate, Greg Aquino, Jeff Bennett and I think Gary Glover are on Major League rosters. I'd much rather have Seth then any of those guys. I don't think he'll put it all together to become a viable closer or starter, but he has a ton of a value in the long man and/or garbage innings.

To get back on topic, I think Para gets sent down today, Bush gets pushed back to Tuesday. If Sheets can't go on Wednesday, he'll get DL'ed a to free up a roster spot for Gwynn. I'm guessing Stetter goes down for TG jr, if Sheets can still go. Should Sheets get DL'ed will they call up Zack Jackson, or can they recall Para that quick since Ben and DL would be involved? If not the roster spot for Zack Jack would come from either Gross (either him or TGjr go when Cameron comes back) Dillon (25th guy, only 1 start so far, but leaves Council as only backup IF) or Turnbow (basically a more expensive McClung who seems to have lost all confidence).

[endaround]

Actually what makes most sense is to send Stetter down, push everyone else back a day in case Sheets can't go and just the decision until Wednesday or Thursday.

[fondybrewfan]

So it less than 4 hours till game time.

 

What the heck is going on? Perhaps waiting to see how Ben feels this morning?

[dadofandrew]

McClung throws 95 and is cheap. He'd get claimed by a dozen teams.

[brewjihad]

So it less than 4 hours till game time.

 

What the heck is going on? Perhaps waiting to see how Ben feels this morning?

 

In their defense, it would probably be beneficial to not let the Reds know who is starting until as late as possible. Regardless, everything I've read lists the matchup as Gallardo against Harang.

[Sepolevne]

I don't think the Brewers should send Stetter or Parra down. There's so few left handed pitchers on the staff, it might not be a good idea to send a left hander down.

[Fatter than Joey]

I would assume Stetter would stick around today at least to pitch to the Reds.

[JohnBriggs12]

DFA Turnbow already and eat the contract. It's not like he's earning his salary anyway. Buys a couple extra days for Sheets too.

[brettac1]

I think Stetter makes the most sense to go down. Two LOOGY's is just a waste of a roster spot. As far as the rotation, Parra probably has an advantage just because he throws with his left hand.

[Brewtacular]

DFA Turnbow already and eat the contract. It's not like he's earning his salary anyway. Buys a couple extra days for Sheets too

I really dont understand this obsession to rid us of Turnbow. I suppose we can just bury our heads in the sand and pretend he wasnt effective last year becuase he had a few bad outings. That way we can depend on a slew of guys that are unproven and never likely to have anywhere near the success T-bow has had.

 

[Fatter than Joey]

I think Stetter makes the most sense to go down. Two LOOGY's is just a waste of a roster spot.

 

I don't think it is fair to call Stetter a LOOGY, he has pitched pretty decent against RHers. Shouse should not be pitching against RHers, but I don't think Yost has used Shouse as a LOOGY yet this year.

 

In either case, I'd be interested to keep Stetter around today to deal with some of Cincy's LHers. The waste of a roster spot is Turnbow who has only pitched in 4 games, with only one appearance that could remotely be considered meaningful. Turnbow has seemed to slip behind McClung on the depth chart. I'd probably be inclined to DFA Turnbow, and then move him to the highest bidder.

 

EDIT: I would be nervous about sending Bush, Parra or Villy down until the Brewers knew what was up with Sheets.