Brent Brewer

[paul253]

Brent Brewer seems to have quite a bit of upside, but his defense at SS is terrible. So far this year he has 8 errors in 12 games, enough to make Mat Gamel look like a gold glover. Why hasn't he been switched to centerfield yet? It seems inevitable, and i would think it makes sense to do it as soon as possible to get him the most experience possible. Any thoughts?

[TooLiveBrew]

Is the 8 E's in 12 games a small sampling, or do you feel it's indicative of his true talent?

I'd guess the Brewers don't yet feel the latter is the case, or the switch would probably get made -- as you mentioned, why wait? Also keep in mind that E's aren't always a good indicator of defensive talent, or even results sometimes. To be fair, you're obv. not the first observer to have serious concerns about Brent's D.

[wvpowerblkwel]

Let's put it this way guys, at last nite's game after Brewer made yet another error, there were offers from a fan in the stands to purchase him a ticket to Helena! He's looked good in a couple games, but it's almost like he tries to rush everything and just doesn't have the "knack" of shortstop. At this level if he doesn't get it soon, perhaps a position change might be in order...there's too many chances up the middle to be uncomfortable at the position.

[bullox]

http://www.johnlewis.com/jl_assets/product/230221012.jpg

 

Teflon coated.

[agent39]

I dont need to jump to the defense of all my guys but I think Mr. Brewer is going to be just fine at SS. I dont see CF as an org need and obviously his value is maxed out at SS so why the overwhelming sense of urgency to waste a top prospect and bury him in the OF. Who the hell cares about winning games in the minors. Its about player developement, not winning.

[uwisfan]

yeah i don't see the openings coming in the outfield either necessarily. I think Braun and Hart are probably long-term players, then you have LaPorta, Iribarren, Gwynn, and others still that will see playing time. Clearly Escobar is pushing for a starting spot and he will be tough to beat along with Hardy, but I would think second or third are also viable options. Those are pretty weak positions for the organization right now.

 

But just look at the club and there is already 2 long-term locks in the outfield..then half our top 16 or so prospects are in the OF, with others like Gamel struggling in the field at third...

[Gopher74]

Is the 8 E's in 12 games a small sampling, or do you feel it's indicative of his true talent?

 

 

 

Even if he went another 20 games without an error to make it a "big sampling", it'd still look bad. Plus he had about 50 errors last year.

And no, errors aren't always a true measure...but that can only work if you have very few errors, but you're not a good fielder. Having a lot of errors always means you're not a good fielder.

 

The Brewers are taking the same approach many teams take with their talented young IF'ers who struggle defensively. They're working with them and hoping they figure it out as they're far more valuable playing in the IF than anywhere else, but Brent Brewers future position is almost certainly Center Field.

[Gopher74]

I dont need to jump to the defense of all my guys but I think Mr. Brewer is going to be just fine at SS. I dont see CF as an org need and obviously his value is maxed out at SS so why the overwhelming sense of urgency to waste a top prospect and bury him in the OF. Who the hell cares about winning games in the minors. Its about player developement, not winning.

Well, first off agent, with all due respect, I don't see the "overwhelming sense of urgency" to move him. There have been very few posts on here actually suggesting that, must less urging it. I don't think there are a lot of people getting real worked up about his defensive play thus far because they know how raw he is and what type of talent he is, however, it would seem to me that he's got a much better chance to make it as a athletic Center Fielder who could potentially turn into a very good fielder out there in the Brewers organization rather than at SS with all the problems he's had defensively coupled with what the Brewers currently have there(Hardy, Escobar, Perez).

 

And nobody's suggesting that they move him because the team's not winning. With respect, they're suggesting it because he's 56 errors in his last 137 games.

 

From everything I've heard, he sounds almost like a BJ Upton type player, so it doesn't appear that his chances to make it depend on him being a shortstop. And when I say Upton, I mean with his physical ability and what he could become.

 

[ILuvDaBush]

He's still young, too, however, like Upton. I say we give young Brent another year and a half before we start asking him to change his position. As the agent stated, his value is maximized as a shortstop, and he's only been focusing on shortstop (and baseball) full-time for the last two years.

[TheCrew07]

Well Braun's value was maximized at 3rd... and while I wanted him to stick there, I know why they moved him to the outfield. He'll get every opportunity, but if he's an E machine later in his career, he'll get moved like everyone else with defensive issues.

[wvpowerblkwel]

Agent 39, my post about his errors was really just what I said. He doesn't appear that comfortable at short. He'll string a couple good games together, and you think he is getting it, and then he just looks uncomfortable making routine plays. I hope SS is the place because he is a talented player but even that, he's still got Alcides above him in the minors. I just think that moving him around some might make a little sense because he continues to struggle with some routine plays. My post was actually indicative of the frustration of the fans here watching him in Charleston, to say that he is taking flack from the crowd which I'm sure doesn't help matters for him! If he is comfortable at short, more power to him, and I hope he continues to get better!

[paul253]

Mr. Brewer is going to be just fine at SS. I dont see CF as an org need and obviously his value is maxed out at SS so why the overwhelming sense of urgency to waste a top prospect and bury him in the OF. Who the hell cares about winning games in the minors. Its about player developement, not winning.

 

You're right, it is about developing a player. Thats why i think its better to move him sooner, rather than later. Does anyone here really think he is going to be a majorl eague shortstop? I doubt it. So why have him continue to play there. I understand it's your job to give him the best chance to succeed, but its in the teams best interest to put him in a spot they can actually play him. Shortstop is premium, but you can't just stick just anyone there, they have to be good at it. The Brewer's last season plus have shown how bad defense can ruin a season, and we don't seem to have all that many solid defenders in the minors. I'm sorry, I just think keeping someone at shortstop who can't handle it is a bad idea. Get him as much experience in the outfield as possible, or move him to second. As far as the outfield being crowded, yeah it is...now. But Brewer is at least 3 years away, and a lot can happen in 3 years. LaPorta may be at first base, Braun may be on the verge of leaving, Hart may be gone, Hall and Gwynn may be gone. 4 years ago we had Richie Sexson, Corey Hart, Brad Nelson and Prince Fielder all at first base. Minor league depth seems to work itself out.

[agent39]

He has tremendous hands and athleticism and I dont see any reason to move him off SS and thankfully neither do the Brewers.

[paul253]

56 errors last season? 9 erros in 14 games this season? Thats not enough to think maybe shortstop isnt working out so well? Yes he is very athletic, but tell me why that means he can't play centerfield. I realize you are his agent and you think the best way for him to get to the majors is at short, but his defensive stats make Rickie Weeks and Mat Gamel look like good defenders, which of course they aren't. Do you honestly think he will make it to the show sticking at shortstop? He may have the "ability" to play short, but if he doesnt improve he doenst improve.

[agent39]

Holy rush to judgment. He's freaking 20. Didnt Jeter make some 50 to 60 errors in the SAL when he was there. Why would the brewers want to devalue a prospect? This has absolutely nothing to do with me it has to do with how to best utilize an investment and I think for what Brent got he's going to stick at SS for a while.There is absolutely ZERO reason to move him to the OF especially when the following OF are in the system.................... Cain Ford,Brantley,Irrabarren,Laporta,Gillespie, etc. etc here. Not exactly an org need. He'd be a total waste at 2b and I dont see how moving him to 3b would help him either. He's going to live or die at shortstop and I dont foresee them moving Brent for a while. I think there's a chance I may have some insight on this. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[paul253]

ok so the only way he can possibly have any value whatsoever in the organization is to have him play shortstop....got it. How is moving him to centerfield devaluing him, and don't say because he'd be blocked. I already went over the "organizational need" quandry a few posts ago...in 3 years, the depth might not be there. Look at how many first base prospects we had 3 years ago, and how many do we have now? and there isn't "zero" reason to move him...when someone stuggles that much fielding their position, thats all the reason you need to move him. I'll ask again, are you willing to say you think he will make it to the majors as a shortstop?

[agent39]

I will refrain from all sarcasm in this post but for whatever it's worth I think I know what I'm talking about.

[SoCalBrewfan]

First of all, please play nicely here.

 

The error count by itself is not really a good indicator of his eventual promise as a shortstop, and it's premature to state without qualification that he won't be a shortstop. Young infielders often make a lot of errors in the low minors, where fields and first basemen are often not quite up to major league standards. A guy with good range and a strong arm will often make lot of throwing errors, but it is possible to improve upon that with time and repetitions. As noted, Derek Jeter made 56 errors in the Sally league as a nineteen-year-old (1993). Omar Vizquel, eventually a multiple gold glove winner, made 24 errors in 60 games his first two seasons. Bill Hall made 38 errors in 65 games in rookie-league Ogden, then 40 errors in low A ball...he even made 41 in AAA. Eric Chavez, eventually a gold glover at 3b, made 32 errors in 118 games at age 19. Adrian Beltre, another GG, 37 errors in 121 games at age 18.

 

That's not to say that Brewers can or cannot eventually be a major league shortstop...just that high error totals are not the sole determinant of fielding promise. Some scouts have suggested moving him to CF, apparently, but the Brewers still feel he can stick at short. That will play itself out over time, but there's really little sense of urgency at this point, when he's so young and far from the majors. Yes, Brewer has a lot to learn...but that's what the minors are for.

[agent39]

First of all, please play nicely here.

 

The error count by itself is not really a good indicator of his eventual promise as a shortstop, and it's premature to state without qualification that he won't be a shortstop. Young infielders often make a lot of errors in the low minors, where fields and first basemen are often not quite up to major league standards. A guy with good range and a strong arm will often make lot of throwing errors, but it is possible to improve upon that with time and repetitions. As noted, Derek Jeter made 56 errors in the Sally league as a nineteen-year-old (1993). Omar Vizquel, eventually a multiple gold glove winner, made 24 errors in 60 games his first two seasons. Bill Hall made 38 errors in 65 games in rookie-league Ogden, then 40 errors in low A ball...he even made 41 in AAA. Eric Chavez, eventually a gold glover at 3b, made 32 errors in 118 games at age 19. Adrian Beltre, another GG, 37 errors in 121 games at age 18.

 

That's not to say that Brewers can or cannot eventually be a major league shortstop...just that high error totals are not the sole determinant of fielding promise. Some scouts have suggested moving him to CF, apparently, but the Brewers still feel he can stick at short. That will play itself out over time, but there's really little sense of urgency at this point, when he's so young and far from the majors. Yes, Brewer has a lot to learn...but that's what the minors are for.

 

 

You said what I didnt have time to write. Thank you!

[Gopher74]

Holy rush to judgment. He's freaking 20. Didnt Jeter make some 50 to 60 errors in the SAL when he was there. Why would the brewers want to devalue a prospect? There is absolutely ZERO reason to move him to the OF especially when the following OF are in the system.................... Cain Ford,Brantley,Irrabarren,Laporta,Gillespie, etc. etc here.

Agent, relax. We're not cursing the guy's family, we're questioning if he's better utilized and has a better future at shortstop or CF.

 

And yea, we've got several OF'ers in the minors, but we don't have a lot of CF'ers who project to be hit enough or are athletic enough to play in the big leagues. LaPorta? Gillespie? They're not CF'ers. Brantley hasn't played much Center in the minors, so it stands to reason he's not a viable CF prospect on a good big league team. Ford's not nearly the prospect that Brewer is, and Cain's also played mainly corner OF though he could play center.

 

A lot of talented athletes come up as Shortstop's, but most who struggle defensively early on end up getting moved. Hell, Gary Sheffeild, Bobby Bonilla, Miquel Cabrera..a lot of guys come up as Shortstops as organizations hope they'll figure it out, but most who have that high a number of errors get moved eventually. I just don't see why you'd say that he'll "live or die" at shortstop? As though he's got no chance to make it anywhere else?

And yes, we realize you're his agent and you speak with Brent and have a personal relationship with him, however that also tells us that you're not objective.

 

The bottom line, 82 errors in 172 games is not a very encouraging sign and suggests that if he's going to live or die at Short, it doesn't look very good. That's not a rush to judgment, it doesn't mean that he's "wasted" anywhere else, or that none of us know what we're talking about by suggesting that he may not stick at shortstop like most scouts have suggested. It's just the reality of the situation when you've got a guy ahead of him in AA ball right now who would be a very, very good big league defensive shortstop right now in the big leagues, and the guy on the big league club is one of the more reliable shortstop's in the league. So while the numbers of prospect in CF may be higher, the quality most certainly is not.

 

I think we all hope we're wrong. It'd be great to see him reach his offensive potential and use that great range and cannon at shortstop, but again, we just don't see it as being very likely.

[agent39]

Gopher74 wrote:

agent39 wrote: Holy rush to judgment. He's freaking 20. Didnt Jeter make some 50 to 60 errors in the SAL when he was there. Why would the brewers want to devalue a prospect? There is absolutely ZERO reason to move him to the OF especially when the following OF are in the system.................... Cain Ford,Brantley,Irrabarren,Laporta,Gillespie, etc. etc here.

Agent, relax. We're not cursing the guy's family, we're questioning if he's better utilized and has a better future at shortstop or CF.

And yea, we've got several OF'ers in the minors, but we don't have a lot of CF'ers who project to be hit enough or are athletic enough to play in the big leagues. LaPorta? Gillespie? They're not CF'ers. Brantley hasn't played much Center in the minors, so it stands to reason he's not a viable CF prospect on a good big league team. Ford's not nearly the prospect that Brewer is, and Cain's also played mainly corner OF though he could play center.

A lot of talented athletes come up as Shortstop's, but most who struggle defensively early on end up getting moved. Hell, Gary Sheffeild, Bobby Bonilla, Miquel Cabrera..a lot of guys come up as Shortstops as organizations hope they'll figure it out, but most who have that high a number of errors get moved eventually. I just don't see why you'd say that he'll "live or die" at shortstop? As though he's got no chance to make it anywhere else?And yes, we realize you're his agent and you speak with Brent and have a personal relationship with him, however that also tells us that you're not objective.

The bottom line, 82 errors in 172 games is not a very encouraging sign and suggests that if he's going to live or die at Short, it doesn't look very good. That's not a rush to judgment, it doesn't mean that he's "wasted" anywhere else, or that none of us know what we're talking about by suggesting that he may not stick at shortstop like most scouts have suggested. It's just the reality of the situation when you've got a guy ahead of him in AA ball right now who would be a very, very good big league defensive shortstop right now in the big leagues, and the guy on the big league club is one of the more reliable shortstop's in the league. So while the numbers of prospect in CF may be higher, the quality most certainly is not.

I think we all hope we're wrong. It'd be great to see him reach his offensive potential and use that great range and cannon at shortstop, but again, we just don't see it as being very likely.

Brantley is a viable CF, Cain is a viable CF and I really think you are selling Darren Ford short. At the end of the season I believe Darren will be a top 10 prospect in the system. He just makes more things happen on the diamond than the other guys. I also don't pay attention to "scouts" nor do I pay attention to baseball america or perfect game (sorry patrick) because if writers could scout or play they would be scouts or they would play. Escobar is light years ahead of Brewer developmentally so like I said. Holy rush to judgment. Brent will not be on the verge of the big leagues as a SS if all plays out until 3-4 years from now while escobar will be up in sept. I dont see how anyone is blocking Brent, and if Brent can adjust who knows how good he'll be. At the end of last season Brent's hands were improving and he was making all the adjustments he needed. I think starting him off in WV was the right thing to do but when you have a system that hands out big money to D/F's to play CF and have guys like Cain Ford and Brantley ahead of you again why in god's name would you ever waste a top SS prospect in CF. You can always find an outfielder, you cannot always find a shortstop. And like the other poster said, who the hell even cares about minor league stats? It's about player developement and making errors comes with the territory.

[splitterpfj]

Hi 39.

 

First off, you're right, at this point in his development, Brewer has plenty of time to prove he'll be a major league SS. I would not move him from the position right now, but if his defense is still this shaky when he starts to get to AA and beyond, I would absolutely move him. Whatever happens, I want to see the Brewers have his position figured out before he reaches Milwaukee.

 

The organization has proven that they'll give young players plenty of time to play their way into or out of a position, as they are with Gamel right now.

 

One other note, yes, we'd all be players if we could, but be careful about discounting what a writer might have to say. A lot of writers are connected directly to scouts, GMs, coaches, etc - what they write may be much more than just "their opinion."

[agent39]

Hi 39.

One other note, yes, we'd all be players if we could, but be careful about discounting what a writer might have to say. A lot of writers are connected directly to scouts, GMs, coaches, etc - what they write may be much more than just "their opinion."

 

I know this but what I was refering to was their "scouting reports' of which I couldnt care less because whoever there source is (the team, agents, players) you will never get an unbiased opinion.

[TheCrew07]

Nor is your opinion unbiased...

 

I understand you defending one of your boys, but there are some pretty big holes in his game. Franky, I'm much more concerned about his strike out rate than his defense. If the bat is good enough, you'll find a home regardless... defensive positions tend to work themselves out in time. He had a tremendous BABIP last year, when he makes contact he hits the ball hard. However there aren't many Rob Deer types playing SS in MLB, so I view his strike outs as the biggest hole in his game at this time.

 

When all is said and done this is just a fan site where people toss around ideas, hardly worth getting so worked up over.

[colbyjack]

When all is said and done this is just a fan site where people toss around ideas...

 

I think this is the key point here. I know agent39 is passionate about what he does and the players he represents, and he's taken his shots at me when I have suggested that Brewer's likely position down the road could very well be centerfield. I agree with the overlying idea that there is no reason to move him anywhere else at this point in time, but really if we didn't have things like this to talk and disagree about what fun would this forum be?

 

Just a comment on the PG scouting aspect, something I have talked to agent39 about on the side, I will say that Perfect Game employs several full-time regional scouts across the country that provides the thousands of scouting reports of which the individual player profiles are built, and these scouts could just as easily be working for big-league teams, and in several instances either have in the past or have moved on to do so. So to add the comment "because if writers could scout or play they would be scouts or they would play" is about as fair as saying that Brent Brewer has no business playing SS.