Rickie Weeks looks the same to me; like a bust.

[bobskube]

I harshly disagree.

 

In baseball drafts, there are high amounts of failures in early first round. There are also good tenth round picks. This is not the NFL. Players don't get to be looked at for three or four years after high school for the most part. Development takes longer and there is a far more chance for injury or failure over that extra course of time.

[RickieDROPSbombs]

I say we start a thread like this about Prince for tomorrow. It worked for Rickie.

[1992casey]

We've been there and done that. One of the Prince threads even got locked. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[tigerbrew]

RickieWeeksJr, I think Rickie heard you and have really stepped it up last 2 games. That homer against Santana was a bomb.

 

[Darnell Junior]

If you're including this year's production in the discussion, which I admit is more than a little premature 12 games in, Rickie is hitting .213 with an OBP of .338. If he plays 140 games (a modest projection assuming health) this year he's on pace for 35 homers 35 steals and 152 runs. If Phillips isn't shaded towards 2nd on that play a couple days ago and Rickie hits that 400 foot out a few days ago 3 more feet to the left I feel like this topic doesn't even get started. The years past are what I think we need to be judging Rickie on, and he's only played in about 100 games each of those three years. If you project his numbers in each year to about 140 games he's a 20/30 guy who routinely has an OBP 100 points or more higher than his BA. And these are all in years where when he actually was on the field, he was far from 100 percent healthy. The only thing holding Rickie back has been injuries in my opinion. The average leadoff hitter last year had a .277/.341/.427 line, and the average 2nd baseman had a .272/.341/.418 line. I'll take Rickie's .234/.374/.418 from his injury plagued 2007 over both of these, and we haven't seen the best of him yet.

 

Defensively Rickie isn't good by any means, but we have been seeing improvement year to year, and I don't think sayin he'll be an average fielding 2nd baseman is outrageous. Offensively I'd be willing to say Weeks is already a top 5 second baseman, so the only area I'm even worried about him is on the defensive side.

[TooLiveBrew]

The only thing holding Rickie back has been injuries in my opinion. The average leadoff hitter last year had a .277/.341/.427 line, and the average 2nd baseman had a .272/.341/.418 line. I'll take Rickie's .234/.374/.418 from his injury plagued 2007 over both of these, and we haven't seen the best of him yet.

And the lawd said you got to believe!

 

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/blog/revbrown.jpg

 

 

Wow, great to read a new post like that one. Welcome, Darnell Jr.

[RU Rah Rah]

He scorched his homer yesterday -- so much so, in fact, that he injured that poor woman in the bleachers out in left.

[BrewCrewForever]

Except for the Overbay deal. That's probably a topic for another day though.

Im torn on the Overbay deal. Mostly because we don't know what Zach Jackson quite has yet and Bush has been up and down and Gross has never gotten a chance to play everyday. That trade is very hard to judge, not sure if it was good or bad.

 

 

(pared back nested quote --1992)

[TheCrew07]

The Overbay deal was fine, we got 2 MLB caliber players that plugged holes and contributed for a couple of years, Zach Jack is good depth if nothing else.

 

I'm not sure why people think we should have gotten a huge haul for Overbay... everyone knew he was going to be moved to make room for Prince. Unless teams get a bidding war for your player, you don't have much leverage when the other side knows you have to move him.

[Fear The Chorizo]

It's the third season since the Overbay trade - Zach Jackson has seen three young starters pass him up on their way to the big leagues, and he'd be up with them if he was the pitcher everyone thought he might be when the trade went down. Bush is what he is, a decent option for the back of a good rotation, but someone who becomes very expendable once he reaches free agency. Gross has given the Brewers a good lefty bat and is a decent backup OF...he hasn't hit against lefties well enough to warrant consideration for him playing everyday.

[GAME05]

of course we also don't know what Melvin's other options were with Overbay. two plug-in guys and AAA depth even years later might still have been the best deal. i can't imagine the market for a non-power 1st baseman had to be too hot.

 

i can't duplicate the great stats posts before, but the fact that Weeks has his OBP so much higher than his BA to me speaks to how much better he's going to become. Also, didn't Milwaukee immediately see him as a #3 hitter when he came up? he was pretty much pushed into leadoff by necessity, and you have to wonder if his BA would be higher if he was in a different slot, albeit at the cost of his OBP probably.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm not sure why people think we should have gotten a huge haul for Overbay... everyone knew he was going to be moved to make room for Prince.

 

I found myself wishing the past two seasons that where Overbay was moved would have been to LF... but then again, Bush has given some very strong innings, too. Probably a fair trade, and I imagine Jackson was a sort of throw-in.

[logan82]

TooLiveBrew wrote:

I found myself wishing the past two seasons that where Overbay was moved would have been to LF... but then again, Bush has given some very strong innings, too. Probably a fair trade, and I imagine Jackson was a sort of throw-in.

I thought that Jackson was the main player in that deal and Bush was the throw in. I seem to remember that people thought Jackson was a pretty good prospect at the time.

[TooLiveBrew]

If that's the case, good job on selling high by Ricciardi.

[Ayt]

I thought that Jackson was the main player in that deal and Bush was the throw in. I seem to remember that people thought Jackson was a pretty good prospect at the time.

I don't see a throw in in that trade for the Brewers. Bush, Gross, and ZJ all filled roles (likely back end starter, reserves lefty OF, solid lefty pitching prospect they hoped to fast track).

Here is the MJS story about it:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=376038

 

[snyttri]

Of course we also don't know what Melvin's other options were with Overbay. two plug-in guys and AAA depth even years later might still have been the best deal. i can't imagine the market for a non-power 1st baseman had to be too hot.

IIRC it was reported at the time that Boston wanted to trade Bronson Arroyo for Overbay. Arroyo had just signed a three year deal in the off season for a total of just over $11 million. Boston ended up settling for Wily Mo Pena when Doug chose to deal with Toronto.

[Invader3K]

IIRC it was reported at the time that Boston wanted to trade Bronson Arroyo for Overbay. Arroyo had just signed a three year deal in the off season for a total of just over $11 million. Boston ended up settling for Wily Mo Pena when Doug chose to deal with Toronto.

There always seems to be some annual Boston/Milwaukee trade rumored that never ends up happening.

The Overbay trade was fine. We traded a very average or slightly above average player, got a couple MLB ready players including a starting pitcher and one AAA guy. That's probably about all the Brewers could have reasonably asked for.

 

[snyttri]

There always seems to be some annual Boston/Milwaukee trade rumored that never ends up happening.

 

The Overbay trade was fine. We traded a very average or slightly above average player, got a couple MLB ready players including a starting pitcher and one AAA guy. That's probably about all the Brewers could have reasonably asked for.

Because the Brewers report turning down Arroyo on their official site I think it was more than a rumor. Arroyo is a considerably better pitcher than Bush, an inninings eater with a 4.22 ERA last year and for his career and with an All-Star game he could have had for the Brewers. I think you have to chalk this up as a bad trade by Doug because there was a better opportunity on the table.

 

12/8/05 brewers site on overbay trade

 

"Boston was also in the running for Overbay and the Brewers considered right-hander Bronson Arroyo, but instead chose Toronto's offer because of the financial flexibility that could allow Milwaukee to pursue a free agent or add payroll in another trade, possibly for a reliever or another left-handed bat."