Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 1)

[DougJones43]

There was really no chance of him pitching the next inning obviously, so why was he allowed to hit?

 

He was up there to bunt. Being short handed on the bench and since Yo handles the bat very well, it was a good call.

I suppose. We hadn't even used anybody off the bench yet though. It seems like Counsell could have pinch hit, and then stayed in for Weeks at 2B on defense. I just don't like leaving it up to a pitcher in an important situation like that. I agree though, they do need to do something about the lack of healthy bodies on the bench, so Ned was kind of handcuffed.

[tristarscoop]

Because it was a tie game in late innings and the likelihood of extra innings was high. Since we're carrying 14 pitchers, we have only 3 backup position guys on the bench - one of them is the backup catcher, so we hold him until we absolutely have no choice. Pinching for Yo in that situation is a waste of a position/pinch hitter. It's just a bunt, something all pitchers are supposed to be able to do and even if it was a hit situation, I might have left Yo in since he'd already hit Harang earlier.

[Ennder]

Heh, I try to stay positive but I think we need a 95 win team to go to the playoffs with this clown managing the team.

[adambr2]

Ned's post-game interviews are always entertaining. 9 times out of 10, a reporter will ask a question that Ned doesn't want to hear but knows he will get asked. He often gives a short, snide answer like "Of course!" There is a slight pause, and the reporter will press for further explanation. So Yost will then give a short, broad explanation. There will be an uncomfortable pause while Ned stares blankly at the reporter, who is then forced to move onto questions about how great certain Brewers played that day, and then Yost is always happy to talk.

[JohnBriggs12]

Ned's excuse (and we've heard this one before): "I asked him before the game if he could go and he said yes."

 

So Ned deflects the blame off himself and back on to his reliever. He makes me sick. What do you think a closer or any competitor not named Sheets is going to say Ned?

It's your job to know that 4 days in a row is a recipe for disaster.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Ned's post-game interviews are always entertaining. 9 times out of 10, a reporter will ask a question that Ned doesn't want to hear but knows he will get asked. He often gives a short, snide answer like "Of course!" There is a slight pause, and the reporter will press for further explanation. So Yost will then give a short, broad explanation. There will be an uncomfortable pause while Ned stares blankly at the reporter, who is then forced to move onto questions about how great certain Brewers played that day, and then Yost is always happy to talk.

I still don't understand how people take media press conferences at face value.

[adambr2]

Ned's post-game interviews are always entertaining. 9 times out of 10, a reporter will ask a question that Ned doesn't want to hear but knows he will get asked. He often gives a short, snide answer like "Of course!" There is a slight pause, and the reporter will press for further explanation. So Yost will then give a short, broad explanation. There will be an uncomfortable pause while Ned stares blankly at the reporter, who is then forced to move onto questions about how great certain Brewers played that day, and then Yost is always happy to talk.

I still don't understand how people take media press conferences at face value.

 

Guess I'm not really sure what you're saying here. Is there a certain way we're supposed to take a media press conference?

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Press Conferences are just meant to sell newspapers. Managers just do all they can to get them over with and get back to their proper focus: the team. Does it really matter what Yost says to the media about why he brought Gagne in the game? It was obvious. Gagne is our closer, and closers come in during save situations. Did we have to have a press conference to have Yost reveal that "secret" information. That's one of the most annoying things about press conferences. All the questions asked during them are questions that everyone knows the answers to already. Gotta get that quote for the next day's newspaper though!

[Fatter than Joey]

Press Conferences are just meant to sell newspapers.

 

Why should Ned Yost care about selling newspapers?

[bobskube]

I just think Yost struggles as an in-game manager, but I think he could be a tremendous bench coach for someone.

[adambr2]

It was obvious. Gagne is our closer, and closers come in during save situations

 

 

That's obvious? That's not very obvious to me. That sounds like managing robotically. I sure don't want Gagne coming in during a save situation tommorow just because he is our closer.

[trwi7]

I just think Yost struggles as an in-game manager, but I think he could be a tremendous bench coach for someone.

 

I agree. Pull Suppan after about 90 pitches when he's cruising along but let Gallardo pitch well over 100 in his first start back from injury? Then pitch Gagne four days in a row with his injury history when Torres, Riske, Shouse or Turnbow could've been used? Possibly a combination if you wanted a righty to face Encarnacion and then Shouse to face Bako, Hatteberg and Patterson.

[UndraftedFA]

Yo started 3 games for Nashville. I am pretty sure he was over 100 pitches in his last start there. It's not like it was his first time throwing this spring.

[trwi7]

Yo started 3 games for Nashville. I am pretty sure he was over 100 pitches in his last start there. It's not like it was his first time throwing this spring.

 

100 in Nashville where the games don't matter vs 100 in Cincinnati where the games do. I was stunned when he came out for the 7th inning when he already had 101 pitches through 6 innings. Especially when he had such a quick hook with Suppan yesterday at only 87 pitches.

[Hammer]

I would really love to be a fly on the wall when Melvin fields calls about his manager. Does he think that Yost is as worthless as we do at times? Sheesh, we need at least a 100 win team to win 88-90 games it seems...

[don1481]

Yo started 3 games for Nashville. I am pretty sure he was over 100 pitches in his last start there. It's not like it was his first time throwing this spring.

 

106 in his last start at Nashville. But really - I would not like to see him going almost 115 game in and game out like today - that's a fast track to Prior/Wood territory IMO.

 

EDIT: While I do understand that other starting pitchers are going that many pitches, I don't think that it's advisable to have younger-ish pitchers like Yo or Felix Hernandez going 115 pitches game in and game out.

[brewjihad]

Again, pitching Gagne four days in a row- especially when the Reds have seen him twice already- is not putting the team or player in a position to succeed.

[jazzytrav]

It was obvious. Gagne is our closer, and closers come in during save situations

 

 

That's obvious? That's not very obvious to me. That sounds like managing robotically. I sure don't want Gagne coming in during a save situation tommorow just because he is our closer.

I know we've gone over the fact that all managers do this, but I just don't think that's an excuse to use a reliever, any reliever, 4 games in a row. Stetter was dealing, and after Encarnacion there were 3 lefties in a row. Why not let him finish? Or, after the Encarnacion homer, bring in Shouse. Maybe Shouse had pitched too many days in a row, but this is where the move yesterday comes back to bite because Shouse was wasted in a situation that he wasn't needed.

 

I also disagree that all managers bring in their closer in save situations no matter what. It's not obvious to me at all that this is necessary. Earlier this year I watched the end of a Cubs game and Lou was purposely keeping Wood out after he had pitched 2 days in a row. He had pitched April 5th and 6th, and on April 7th the Cubs and Pirates played 12 innings. Lieber had pitched 3 scoreless extra innings, and Marmol came in for the save. AFTER 2 DAYS. And it wasn't like Wood was struggling; he had dominated the 2 games before, only throwing 25 pitches combined. The announcers clearly explained that Lou didn't want Wood pitching, even though it was a save situation, for 3 games in a row. And please don't tell me that Ned is a better game manager than Lou.

[logan82]

jazzytrav wrote:

I also disagree that all managers bring in their closer in save situations no matter what. It's not obvious to me at all that this is necessary. Earlier this year I watched the end of a Cubs game and Lou was purposely keeping Wood out after he had pitched 2 days in a row. He had pitched April 5th and 6th, and on April 7th the Cubs and Pirates played 12 innings. Lieber had pitched 3 scoreless extra innings, and Marmol came in for the save. AFTER 2 DAYS. And it wasn't like Wood was struggling; he had dominated the 2 games before, only throwing 25 pitches combined. The announcers clearly explained that Lou didn't want Wood pitching, even though it was a save situation, for 3 games in a row. And please don't tell me that Ned is a better game manager than Lou.

The difference between Gagne and Wood is that Wood isn't even a full year removed from an arm injury.

[jazzytrav]

Well, it's not like Gagne is a completely healthy guy. With TJ surgery and a back/neck injury in the last 3 years, I would say he's someone to be a little careful with.

[logan82]

Well, it's not like Gagne is a completely healthy guy. With TJ surgery and a back/neck injury in the last 3 years, I would say he's someone to be a little careful with.

True, but you can't compare him to Wood at all. Gagne has had at least one full year without injuries to his arm at this point and is almost a year and a half removed from back surgery. I don't even know the last time Wood has had a full year without having an arm injury.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I know we've gone over the fact that all managers do this, but I just don't think that's an excuse to use a reliever, any reliever, 4 games in a row. Stetter was dealing, and after Encarnacion there were 3 lefties in a row. Why not let him finish?

They pinch hit Counrsel for Stetter IIRC. I do think they should have gone with someone else, other than Gagne 4 days in a row and the weather.

 

I swear someone in the brewers organization was saying how they thought they needed to be careful with Gagne and not use him too many days in a row, because of injury and or ineffectiveness. Apparently Ned didn't get that memo.

[Ennder]

jazzytrav wrote:

I also disagree that all managers bring in their closer in save situations no matter what. It's not obvious to me at all that this is necessary. Earlier this year I watched the end of a Cubs game and Lou was purposely keeping Wood out after he had pitched 2 days in a row. He had pitched April 5th and 6th, and on April 7th the Cubs and Pirates played 12 innings. Lieber had pitched 3 scoreless extra innings, and Marmol came in for the save. AFTER 2 DAYS. And it wasn't like Wood was struggling; he had dominated the 2 games before, only throwing 25 pitches combined. The announcers clearly explained that Lou didn't want Wood pitching, even though it was a save situation, for 3 games in a row. And please don't tell me that Ned is a better game manager than Lou.

The difference between Gagne and Wood is that Wood isn't even a full year removed from an arm injury.

Of course Gagne had hip problems early last year and a "tired arm" right before the Red Sox traded for him last year. Face the facts Yost is a moron for hte move today.

[strawbossisevil]

I think everyone could agree that it wasn't one of his better moves of the year.

 

Was it moronic? Maybe, maybe not. If Gagne honestly told Ned that he'd be available for today's game, that he was feeling well enough to go an inning (and there is no reason for us to think he didn't based on what we know) the move at least makes a little bit of sense. It doesn't mean that he should have sent him out when he had other well rested options. It certainly opened himself up to the possibility of being second guessed if it didn't work.

 

I personally wasn't happy to see Gagne brought in for a fourth straight day. I was equally unhappy when Gagne failed. However I think calling him a moron is a bit much (that and name calling is forbidden on this website http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif). Gagne is supposed to be the best arm in our pen, and Ned wanted to use that arm to lock down a sweep on the road (something that hasn't happened in years).

 

One thing though, is that I don't hold Yost as the only one responsible for this loss. Basically the entire team minus Hardy, Gallardo, and Stetter deserved anything but a loss. The middle of our lineup went 0 for the game.

 

I think when game after game our offense fails to contribute (leading to close games), it makes making a good bullpen decision much more difficult (especially when every pitcher, aside from Turnbow, has been used frequently over the past few games).

 

Was this probably his worst move of the year? I'd probably agree with that. I would have done it differently myself.

 

Telling someone to "face the facts" = not cool

[logan82]

Ennder wrote:

Of course Gagne had hip problems early last year and a "tired arm" right before the Red Sox traded for him last year. Face the facts Yost is a moron for hte move today.

I think it was a bad move on Yost's part and Gagne as well. Gagne should be more honest about the condition of his arm instead of trying to be a tough guy. That being said, Yost should have known better. Yost trusts his players to be honest with him, right or not. I was just pointing out that Gagne has had time to strengthen his arm a little more than Wood. I would think that Gagne's tired arm last year would be the same thing that could happen to Wood this year. I wouldn't consider Gagne's arm as strong as Cordero, but I wouldn't put him in the same category as a guy who has had arm problems in each of the last 3years.