Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 1)

[TooLiveBrew]

(aside from Benny [and Gallardo] of course)

 

Don't forget Yovani!

 

And just for the record...

when he's on the ropes, late enough in the game.

 

to me, this doesn't also mean 'has previously shown signs of struggling in a game.' I think at this point, we have a pretty large quantity of Bush starts to see that he tends to surrender more runs when he's thrown 75+ pitches (not too atypical for pitchers). Now I know that doesn't sound like many, but he's been consistent in contributing solid performance over the first 75 or so, iirc. Since he hasn't walked many guys in his career, that 75 can be 5 solid innings. There will be some times this season when the Crew will have a 6+ run lead after 5, and to have Bush to eat up 5-6 innings each start is valuable in its own way.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"Don't forget Yovani! "

 

He hasn't been able to make one damned pitch yet!

 

"Bush...tends to surrender more runs when he's thrown 75+ pitches "

 

Then he can be part of the solution, instead of part of the problem.

 

Dave Bush is a BAD starting pitcher. If he's out there, our pen will be taxed more than a resident of Cook County. In Bush starts, our relievers will be required to turn in 3, 4, 5 innings, burning them out for the next game.

 

But since Dave Bush seems capable of going 3 or even godforbid 4 innings without the house caving in, then he may be an ideal 3-inning middle man a few times a week whenever a starter craps out early.

 

Just don't start Bush again!

[kramnoj]

I agree that having a guy warming up pro-actively sounds like a good idea, but I wonder how many things we don't know. As silly as it may sound, confidence is important, and I don't think having a replacement pitcher ready for a pitcher who has done well is going to help the starter get through the last part of their outing. If you have so little confidence in the pitcher's ability to go deep, why even let them have the opportunity to give up a run? I've watched Brewer's games where I was confident that the struggling starter was going to blow the game, only to have Yost's confidence in the pitcher pay off.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm fine with it. Pitchers like Villy start to decline at 75 pitches

 

Hes' pitched a total of 179.1 innings and 14 starts in three years. It's a bit early to know this isn't it? The best indicator we have with regrad to his starting was in 06 when he had 6 starts and 4 relief appearances and 53.2 innings. Either he had some pretty long releif outings that year or he must have gone into the seventh in several of his starts that year. Ned has three young pitchers on his staff. It's not unheard of for managers to have to learn the limits of guys like that. Frank Kremblas certainly has the you don't know until you try philosophy and he's been touted as a better managerial option than Ned by many on this site.

[TooLiveBrew]

I've watched Brewer's games where I was confident that the struggling starter was going to blow the game, only to have Yost's confidence in the pitcher pay off.

 

But it's about playing the odds, so sometimes Yost is right, and sometimes he's wrong. My problem is that Ned has shown a serious tendency to not play the strongest precentage(s). Bush, for example, we know tends to do very well earlier on. There's nothing wrong with that. But hoping that he'll not repeat his most common results after 75 pitches is just being optimistic for optimism's sake. Even when Yost knows what the best play is, he still hopes things will turn out the way he wants.

[brewtown82]

So let me get this straight...your hottest hitter is out with a bum shoulder, you have Bush (cough) on the mound, and you choose today to give Braun the night off, a game after he had an RBI against the mets? Really?

[lcbj68c]

Even when Yost knows what the best play is, he still hopes things will turn out the way he wants.

 

The only problem with that is you have to manage for 162 games, not just tonight. Without another off day till next week, you have to manage your bullpen for the week and sometimes that involves "hoping" a guy can get you through so that the rest of the week can be spent puting guys in the right positions instead of having a domino effect all over not trusting a guy for one or two more innings.

[orca1963]

There has been a lot of Yost bashing this year (by myself as well, especially in the heat of the moment). Let's say those calling for him to be gone got their wish. Who do we replace him with? How about two choices - one that is actually available and then name your dream manager.

 

Available - I would keep Yost as I have no clue as to anyone worth anything that is available.

Dream Manager - Tony Larussa

[tristarscoop]

As a whole, it's not a problem with Ned overall, so I don't know that it's necessarily about replacing Ned. The decision-making about the pitching is the problem - can't that adjust/change without having to get rid of Ned?

[TooLiveBrew]

you'd think so, but it hasn't changed in 5+ seasons

[jakesdaddio]

I am concerned about the offense, and how the young guys seem to be regressing. All the talk about winning the division, and Yost being Yost...do you think the kids are starting to press already? Its just a theory.

[lcbj68c]

The winning percentage is .615. That's 99 wins. Considering we've played more on the road than at home. I'm not concerned. Frustrated at the approach when behind in ball games, yes. Other than the game I attended at Shea last Sunday, we dont play well from behind. Enter Dave Bush into the equation and the likelihood of falling behind early grows. The kids have said they are confident that they are going to win most ballgames, so I dont think they are pressing to win. I think they press when they fall behind early and have a tendency to have poor approaches at the plate.

[Invader3K]

Well, it looks like Braun and Fielder are pressing a bit right now.

 

Keep in mind we are only two and a half weeks into the season. It's not exactly time to panic yet...we still are above .500, after all. We know this team has talent...they'll come around and pull it together soon enough, I believe.

[BuckyTuba]

Wow, I love how every blame always manages (no pun intended) to get back to Yost. Why is everyone freaking out??? We're 8-5, not 5-8, or even worse 3-10.

[Mike2k33]

Apparently some fans were told we'd win 150 games this year.

 

I'm just glad it's 70 degrees outside and there's a baseball game on tonight. The offense will come around, Mike Cameron will help a lot, Yo is coming back soon. I said it in the IGT yesterday and I'll say it again, I just can't get upset about most things in April. It's just way too early.

 

I couldn't imagine the amount of "worried?" threads there would be if this were Tigerfan.net.

[bigredrobbo]

It's. Been. 13. Games.

 

 

Man, this is gonna be a long season if this keeps up...

[Roscoe Chill]

I have nothing real specific to blame on anyone right now. But the idea that some fans expect to win 150 games is a tad over-dramatic. When /if the Brewers win 89 games versus 92, and miss out on the playoffs again by less than three games, YES, one or two games blown by stupid decisions do/will matter.

[Thurston Fluff]

Does anyone think there is a manager out there who wouldn't be on them to take a better approach at the plate? Name one manager who would tell Braun it's ok to swing at every pitch regardless of location. Which guy leads his team by telling his players they can flourish in this game when a pitcher knows they don't have to throw strikes to get them out. If they feel this pressure now I'd assume they felt it a lot more trying to make it to the big leagues with that approach. If the minor league managers weren't on them as hard , if not harder, than Yost about their poor approach the problem isn't Yost. It's the minor league managers who let them get away with it for so long. Professional baseball players at all levels are going to have pressure. If they can't deal with it it isn't the manager who needs to go. It's the weak minded players.

[tosabrewfan]

I think a lot of the "is it time to panic?" sentiment come from the fact that we were all waiting so long for this season to arrive. That being said, I hope somebody talked to Braun on his off days and pointed out that he didn't need to hit 20 home runs in his first ten games. I think that this team will come around.

[Mike2k33]

I have nothing real specific to blame on anyone right now. But the idea that some fans expect to win 150 games is a tad over-dramatic. When /if the Brewers win 89 games versus 92, and miss out on the playoffs again by less than three games, YES, one or two games blown by stupid decisions do/will matter.

And there's plenty of time for stupid decisions as it's April 16th. Yes, every game is important, but it's foolish for us to get so upset 13 games into a 162 game season. Especially when the Brewers have won EIGHT of them.

And yeah, the 150 win comment was over-dramatic, just like worrying about our offense 13 games in is a tad over-dramatic.

[Robideaux]

I'm solidly on the "Ned Yost should have been fired last year" bandwagon, but I think we should probably wait to hang him in effigy until he actually does something blatantly dumb. Given his track record, it is bound to happen sooner or later. Blaming him for nebulous things like pressing/stifling a team playing .600 ball just undermines the legitimate gripes that are sure to come. You know the whole "Cry Wolf" thing.

[jlau20]

I haven't been checking the site much so far this season because I've been really busy at school, but man, I really didn't think I'd come on and see worrying about our season going down the tubes. We're 8-5 and as someone pointed out, that equates to 99 wins. I highly doubt anyone can seriously believe we'll win 99 as it is, so I can't see any reason to panic right now. Is our approach ugly, even extremely ugly, at times? Sure. I'm not willing to say that there is pressure getting to the team though, I don't think they seem to be feeling any more pressure than they did the last two years just due to the fact that I think they know they can win the division.

[brewcrew00]

I'm solidly on the "Ned Yost should have been fired last year" bandwagon, but I think we should probably wait to hang him in effigy until he actually does something blatantly dumb. Given his track record, it is bound to happen sooner or later.

Name one manager in the history of baseball who doesn't make "blatantly dumb" moves. Too much blame is placed on Ned, not just on this board, but by Brewer fans everywhere. I think every manager in baseball has a "track record" of making said dumb moves.

[Thurston Fluff]

Name one manager in the history of baseball who doesn't make "blatantly dumb" moves. Too much blame is placed on Ned, not just on this board, but by Brewer fans everywhere. I think every manager in baseball has a "track record" of making said dumb moves.

 

After the Mets series this should have been obvious other managers make dumb moves as well. Pinnella made a few in the opening series as well.

[Robideaux]

Name one manager in the history of baseball who doesn't make "blatantly dumb" moves. Too much blame is placed on Ned, not just on this board, but by Brewer fans everywhere. I think every manager in baseball has a "track record" of making said dumb moves.

Every manager makes moves that look "blatantly dumb" in hindsight. I don't expect a manager to have the ability to look into a crystal ball to divine the eventual outcome of every move. Where Ned drives me crazy is when the move he makes in inexcusable prior to the outcome (see Mench/Jenkins Cubs game). The manager's job is to make the move that gives the team the best opportunity to win. Ned hasn't always done that; sure some other managers fail at times in this regard, but most good one's understand platoon splits.