Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 1)

[1992casey]

Some of you must not either understand baseball or just have a burning passion of hatred for Ned, because to pin that loss on him is down right hilarious.

 

I hid the post that said that. It crosses the condescension line, and the member who posted it will be receiving a PM.

[brewcrew00]

I give up on this. Not because I agree, rather because some of you fail to be rational. It's not worth it Invader...

[Hammer]

Yes, the manager always bears some margin of blame in any loss, but if the offense scores a grand total of ZERO runs in 10 innings, it's really time to look at the 8 guys in the lineup who are supposed to hit the ball and score runs. Oh, but Ned Yost didn't somehow will them to hit with runners in scoring position, so it must be his fault, once again.

I'm not saying that the offense doesn't get some blame here...they really do. I AM saying that Yost cost the game by making the error in judgement at the last point of the game when it was on the line. If he would have followed common sense and played the infield at DP depth the team would have had another chance to win a tie game...not come from 3 behind. It is all about putting your team in a position to succeed...and he is not doing this 100% of the time.

[aracko]

Seriously - why wouldnt the team be in double play position? How can you blame anyone but Yost for that? he was clearly giving direction to his infielders when he called the meeting on the mound. it was a dumb dumb play - it was almost as though Yost thought there was no outs. That was a wonderful job of Mismanagement.

 

That wasnt some fat guy on 3rd base. that was Hanley Ramirez!!!!!!!!

 

"It was a really tough play on Helms," manager Ned Yost said. "He hit the ball in just the perfect place. It was a do-or-die play.

 

"It was just one of those games."

 

This team has all the pieces we need except for a Major League manager.

[aracko]

This is really a stretch since even at normal depth I doubt we get the double play there.

Your odds of getting a double play when Wes Helms is hitting are MUCH better than your odds of Nailing Hanley Ramirez at the plate when he is running on contact.

 

 

(pared back long nested quote --1992)

[azcheesehead]

I understand that the position players need to hit in order to win. I understand that it is hard to win a MLB game scoring a minimal amount of runs. I understand that Ned Yost doesn't do the hitting, the baserunning, the fielding, etc. However, would anyone be upset if he went into the clubhouse after another pathetic showing and threw some stuff around and perhaps refocused the team, ala Lou Pinella or Jim Leyland? I don't necessarily think being a "player's manager" to a bunch of 20 somethings is a good idea. I think he needs to refocus this team a little bit and obviously the route he is going right now isn't working. Get pissed, challenge your team, and see what happens. It worked for the Tigers. It worked for the Cubs last year.

[jazzytrav]

"It was a really tough play on Helms," manager Ned Yost said. "He hit the ball in just the perfect place. It was a do-or-die play.

 

"It was just one of those games."

 

This team has all the pieces we need except for a Major League manager.

Correction: He hit the ball in A perfect place. There were plenty of them.

 

Here's the thing, you throw that ball home and you might have a chance at the runner at home, but then there's only 2 outs and the bases are still loaded. You turn a double play, and the inning is over. Every decent manager in the league plays his infield for the double play. Heck, Hall would have had a great shot at turning it 5-4-3, but he backed off because Hardy's momentum was going towards home plate. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Trust me, you have a much better chance of doubling up Wes Helms than throwing out Hanley Ramirez at home. This wasn't a do-or-die play, it was a no-chance-in-hell play. It's almost like he's trying to think out-of-the-box so that eventually something fluky will work and he looks like a genius. This entire thing is driving me crazy. I agree aracko, we need an Major League manager. Ned has a lot of fire and he was great for this team when they were young and wide-eyed, but now they have some experience, and this team needs someone that can manage a game.

[Brewer Killa]

Fatter than Joey wrote:

---

Some of you must not either understand baseball

 

False. Mostly just Ned.

I don't know where to begin on this one. And this is what I don't get about people who dislike Ned. Saying he doesn't understand baseball? So now your opinion and hindsight 20-20 decisions are always right? And I know the defense here is, "I wanted to infield at DP depth there", but we never hear about all the times you are at home and Ned's decision works and your didnt. My point is, why does he know nothing and the people sitting at home are correct in their thinking. This is funny.

 

And I have no idea how watching other games you don't see the same types of decisions being made. I won't even go into this one because if you don't, you clearly just hate Ned and will say anything to bash the guy.

 

And lastly, if you believe coaches send in a sign to steal third base, we might be dealing with bigger problems on the baseball knowledge front. That is always an instinct play and Braun did that on his own. NO WAY he was told to go. It's something you can't call on a certain pitch. Just can't.

 

I am going to finish by saying Ned haters are really great to listen to but the reasoning for it is getting to the point where the people can't really believe what their saying. Just can't. The infield call is still something that I can say I see no fault at all. It was 0-0 and were acting like if we were at DP depth it would have worked out. Billy didn't exactly look like he was going to make that play. I don't know if we can say that for sure and then to turn the DP is another story. But to say it was the incorrect play, is absolutely, incorrect. But thanks for posting this all after the game. Does alot of good now.

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[kramnoj]

azcheesehead- "However, would anyone be upset if he went into the clubhouse after another pathetic showing and threw some stuff around and perhaps refocused the team, ala Lou Pinella or Jim Leyland?"

 

Do you remember the altercation that Yost had in the dugout last year? What did that do to improve the team?

[jazzytrav]

So now your opinion and hindsight 20-20 decisions are always right?

It's getting tiring to hear "HINDSIGHT!" every time we question a Yost decision and it ends up failing. Check the IGT or follow the In-Game Chat and you'll see that this is not hindsight. These decisions are almost unanimously questioned before anything happens, then they fail. I have no problem with people that follow Ned blindly, but don't use it as an argument that he's somehow a good manager.

 

And I have no idea how watching other games you don't see the same types of decisions being made. I won't even go into this one because if you don't, you clearly just hate Ned and will say anything to bash the guy.

Being that my girlfriend is a Cubs fan, I've watched almost as many Cub games as Brewer games this year. Lou Piniella is quickly becoming my favorite manager because he doesn't make bone-headed decisions the way Ned does every single night. Additionally, I've seen plenty of managers outmanage Ned in games against the Brewers.

 

The infield call is still something that I can say I see no fault at all. It was 0-0 and were acting like if we were at DP depth it would have worked out.

No one is saying that it would be 100% that it would have worked. But with the position we were in, there was a much higher probability of doubling Wes Helms than throwing out Hanley Ramirez at home when he's running on contact. Also, if you throw it home, you're giving two batters the chance to drive a run in. Turn the double play, and the inning is over.

 

Billy didn't exactly look like he was going to make that play.

Billy backed off because Hardy's momentum was going towards home plate, and since that was the play that was called, Hall was basically following instruction.

 

But thanks for posting this all after the game. Does alot of good now.

Not sure why it was necessary to say it this way. And I've already covered the hindsight stuff.

[azcheesehead]

I think they need some sense of accountability. That's all. I guess I wouldn't mind if Yost was held accountable for some of his decisions either.

[Fatter than Joey]

And this is what I don't get about people who dislike Ned. Saying he doesn't understand baseball?

 

No. Some poster said "we don't understand baseball" -- I said "No, only Ned." -- meaning most people here have a problem grasping Ned, not baseball strategy.

 

And lastly, if you believe coaches send in a sign to steal third base, we might be dealing with bigger problems on the baseball knowledge front.

 

So Dale is doing the Macarena at 3rd after every pitch? -- He isn't doing that right either.

 

That is always an instinct play and Braun did that on his own.

 

Well, if Braun has the green light to steal 3rd with 2 outs, that's on Yost as well.

 

NO WAY he was told to go. It's something you can't call on a certain pitch. Just can't.

 

Are you telling me that coaches can't/don't tell their players when to run? I don't understand what you are saying.

 

I am going to finish by saying Ned haters are really great to listen to

 

Thanks! -- We have the best takes.

[Brewer Killa]

Ok I will try to explain this because this is where the problem lies I think. You can't just say you are going to get a jump from 2nd on any given pitch. So Yost, Sveum, or whomever you want to blame have nothing to do with this. The runner goes only when they know they can get to 3rd. So Braun thought he could get there without a problem and was wrong. So you can say Sveum can't Macarena and Yost is to blame but it sounds silly. This is a HUGE reach. Braun or any other player can steal third if they know they can make it. He might not take the chance going forward seeing he got caught but he had done it before and was safe. But in the end I don't see how Ned has anything to do with this just as he didn't when Hart got thrown out at 3rd with no outs the other day. I guess Sveum should have ran out to 2nd and tackled him. Sometimes players have a mind of their own.

 

 

(eliminated unnecessary quoted material --1992)

[kmcasper23]

When Yost first became the manager of the Brewers I admit I liked the move very much. The first few years he did a good job to get them back to respectability. But as in all professional sports, when your team is not playing up to expectations who takes the fall? It is always the manager. I honestly think Yost is overthinking every single thing he does and is second-guessing himself constantly. That is not a good example to send to our young players. They need someone who is a more decisive leader and who is more confident in himself to lead this club. They need a good leader since they are young and I don't believe that Ned is that guy anymore.

[Fatter than Joey]

Braun or any other player can steal third if they know they can make it.

 

How do you know this?

 

He might not take the chance going forward seeing he got caught but he had done it before and was safe. But in the end I don't see how Ned has anything to do with this just as he didn't when Hart got thrown out at 3rd with no outs the other day.

 

or Yost could tell his team -- "nobody steals 3rd with 2 outs".

 

Either Yost sent Braun, or does not have control of his team.

[Invader3K]

Either Yost sent Braun, or does not have control of his team.

Is it that hard to accept that sometimes players (especially young ones) get over-aggressive, especially on the base paths? No one here was in the dugout, as far as I know, so no one knows whether Yost sent him or not, either way.

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[jazzytrav]

Is it that hard to accept that sometimes players (especially young ones) get over-aggressive, especially on the base paths? No one here was in the dugout, as far as I know, so no one knows whether Yost sent him or not, either way.

I just don't get this argument. Because we won't there and involved in the conversation, we aren't allowed to question the decisions? In my opinion, it's easy to see the decisions that Yost makes and higher probability of a negative result because of them.

 

And even if Braun made that decision, Yost is the one allowing him to make that decision. So Yost is allowing his players to steal 3rd with 2 outs, which I believe is a bad decision.

[TooLiveBrew]

Lou Piniella is quickly becoming my favorite manager because he doesn't make bone-headed decisions the way Ned does every single night.

Lou is vastly overrated. I'm actually glad to have Yost over Lou. At least Ned isn't constantly putting on the h-&-r, and pinch-running for his star players. Lou is very much a small-ball guy. We're lucky that Ned isn't, imo.

[logan82]

I am not sure that that dribbler Helms hit gets to Hardy or Hall fast enough to turn a double play. I think they can still get Helms at 1st, just not the runner at 2B.

[Brewer Killa]

And even if Braun made that decision, Yost is the one allowing him to make that decision. So Yost is allowing his players to steal 3rd with 2 outs, which I believe is a bad decision.

Braun did make the decision and Yost is not allowing him to do it. He just does it on instinct, much like tagging on a questionable fly to right, or going 1st to 3rd on a hit. There is a decision making process and the manager just isn't going have a pregame meeting and state, "No stealing 3rd today or don't tag up on a ball to center. Your just not going to make those blanket statements to your players. If Braun steals that base and the next pitch is a wild pitch we are all saying how great his hustle was.

 

Yost has nothing to do with this stuff and Sveum on has some decision making in some of those things. Alot of these things are just a decision making process and some are better than others. Great example is the play in New York. If there actually was this much control on his players, no way Hart scores on the bunt because Yost should have told him to stay on third because we are simply using the sac bunt here. No way should he have taken that chance of scoring on a bunt. But they say Hart is one of the best instinctive baserunners and is great at those things.

 

Ok I am done with this but I still don't think there is an understanding. Managers do less that we think. Players can make you look very good or very bad.

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)

[Loopee]

Let me say that the decision from yesterday I disagree with is failing to have your SS and 2B at DP depth with 1 out and bases loaded. I think that playing the infield in is objectively the wrong move in any case, and especially with a speedster at 3rd base. While I'll not go so far as to blame Yost for the loss (can't win if you don't score), I think that having the infield in a bad defensive position evinces poor judgment. Managers make a lot of decisions, you want a manager whose judgment you can trust. I don't trust Ned's (After Aquino-gate and Mench-gate from last year he lost me) and wish they would make a change.

[Fatter than Joey]

Ok I am done with this but I still don't think there is an understanding.

 

You are so incorrect.

 

From last year. CLEARLY, Yost makes the call to steal 3b.... I'm sure everyone here will remember this.

 

Gabe Gross hit a one-out double in the first inning but ended the inning by getting caught trying to steal third as Reds pitcher Bronson Arroyo struck out Ryan Braun.

 

"I had a mosquito bite in a certain spot and I was itching it, and Nick thought I was putting the steal on," Brewers manager Ned Yost said, referring to third-base coach Nick Leyva.

 

Baseball creed says never to make the first or third out at third base, and with Prince Fielder due up after Braun, seeing Gross take off for third was simply shocking.

 

"Gabe takes off and I'm looking around thinking, 'What's going on here?' " Yost said. "That was an omen to begin with."

 

Gross was equally shocked.

 

"I thought it was kind of a weird time, but he put it on and I took off," Gross said.

[Brewer Killa]

And CLEARLY, it was a mistake and Gross said that is was shocking and a weird thing to do. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

[Fatter than Joey]

"Gabe takes off and I'm looking around thinking, 'What's going on here?' " Yost said.

 

Yost would not have been shocked if players really stole bases at will

[UndraftedFA]

He was shocked that Gabe was running in that situation. Not all the players have green lights to go at their own choice. I think Braun might be a guy that does have the green light though. I have read in previous seasons that Yost gives some players their own choice. I think there are a lot of mole hills here.