Designated Yost Thread... Latest: No accountability and lack of urgency (part 1)

[jhart05]

You can't burn through everyone by the 6th inning.

 

Using Rivera or Counsell to hit there is not "burning through everyone".

 

I understand the ridiculous nature of having 14 pitchers on a roster, which makes it hard for Yost to use PHers, but he could have used Counsell there to PH for sure.

 

He definitely had choices. If Bush had been pitching well, I would understand leaving him in -- but with runners on base, letting Bush hit was silly. (IMO)

 

 

They needed Bush to go as long as he could. They needed him to get one or two outs in the 7th, but he couldn't do that.

 

Hardy was on first base, who isn't the fastest player on the team, and two outs. Had there been less than two outs, he probably would have PH. But since there were two outs and considering the way Hamels was pitching at the time, letting Bush hit wasn't the worst non-move in the world.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

If we had a rested bullpen and he used Turnbow yesterday then I would have been upset. But Ned really had no choice, Derrick was by far the most fresh and he went with him. Even if it didn't pay off I'm not sure how upset I could be since there were not really any other options unless you want to use a guy who has thrown a lot lately.

 

But I to do hate his post game press conferences. He always sounds like a condecending jerk.

I agree on both accounts. Going with Turnbow was the right move for two reasons - one, he didn't really have many alternatives and two, the upside was huge. Turnbow comes in, does great and builds some confidence, Yost now has a guy he feels he can use in more than a mop up role. Our bullpen may not have the stars that some others have, but it does have depth and now maybe Turnbow is part of it. If he blew it last night, he would probably go back to mop up or be gone. No change from before and Yost really had no choice anyway.

 

He really is condecending during those pressers. That's one thing that makes me think he's too stubborn of a guy sometimes.

[jazzytrav]

Yes. Plus Hamels was pitching extremely well at the time. You would have needed three hits in a row to get a run. Not good odds.

Technically, there's not very good odds to score a run at anytime. Ever. But if you don't give it a shot then it's worthless.

 

I'm really sick of hearing that we need to save guys for later. Saving PHs for later in the game? Saving Riske for the 10th? Seriously, how can you justify that if you lose the game and that PH never came up to bat late in the game like you planned. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Besides, if it's late in the game and there aren't any more bench players, I don't have a problem with Gallardo PHing (which I can't believe he hasn't done yet).

[Fatter than Joey]

They needed Bush to go as long as he could.

 

He was at 100 pitches before the 7th.

 

They needed him to get one or two outs in the 7th, but he couldn't do that.

 

I think if this was truly the case, he would have faced more batters.

 

But since there were two outs and considering the way Hamels was pitching at the time,

 

Even more reason to let a guy with thousands of ABs take a hack over Bush.

 

letting Bush hit wasn't the worst non-move in the world.

 

No one ever said it was, it was simply a move I didn't agree with.

[jeffy]

I don't think not pinch hitting for Bush was a bad non-move. What does Counsell give you over Bush, maybe a 10% greater chance that you get Kendall an ab with a runner in scoring position? Then he would have maybe a 30% chance of driving the run in...so it would seem the chances of scoring are only improved by about 3%.

 

Can not assume the pitcher's spot would not come up more than once later in the game, considering how frequently we are tied after 9 innings.

[jazzytrav]

But why not take the shot when you have it rather than wait to see if you'll get it again later?

[Ennder]

No real complaints about today's game other than the bad baserunning which is the players fault. I would have pinch hit with Counsell instead of Gwynn but the difference between the two isn't nearly big enough to worry about.

[jhart05]

But why not take the shot when you have it rather than wait to see if you'll get it again later?

I guess I just don't see that situation as much of a "shot".

 

Two out, Hardy (not very fast) at first, you will need three hits (I'm counting Hardy's as the first) in a row, to score one run against Hamels, who was pitching pretty dam good at the time.

 

 

[Fatter than Joey]

I would have pinch hit with Counsell instead of Gwynn but the difference between the two isn't nearly big enough to worry about.

 

I agree -- It sucks though you have to chose between those 2 for PHing.

[Hammer]

For the Yost defenders: chalk another loss up to the brilliant thinking that is Yost. Why in the hell were the infielders in with the bases loaded and one out in the 10th? That was a sure double play scenario (even BA mentioned this) and Yost the genius had the infielders playing to cut off the run at home. Stupid, stupid, stupid! I hope this moron is gone soon...my blood pressure cannot handle this much longer. I hate stupid people!!

[BrewCrewForever]

Nice choice not to have Kapler bunt, dumb Ned.

[TooLiveBrew]

For the Yost defenders: chalk another loss up to the brilliant thinking that is Yost.

 

While I agree with you that having the IF in for that situation was not the best move, there is absolutely no way you can hang this one on Yost. The offense was equal parts poor & unlucky tonight. Tonight's game is a good indication of why even the best teams lose at least 50 games.

[Brewer Killa]

For the Yost defenders: chalk another loss up to the brilliant thinking that is Yost. Why in the hell were the infielders in with the bases loaded and one out in the 10th? That was a sure double play scenario (even BA mentioned this) and Yost the genius had the infielders playing to cut off the run at home. Stupid, stupid, stupid! I hope this moron is gone soon...my blood pressure cannot handle this much longer. I hate stupid people!!

This to me is obvious Yost bashing. You do realize that we had not scored a run in the game. We have struggled to score runs and had not scored in this game. One run seems pretty important to me there. So if we were playing at double play depth, who says Billy gets to that ball and if the he does, that the double play is turned? I just dont see how much of a reach it is to see what we were doing there. In a 0-0 game that sounds pretty reasonable whereas in a 8-8 game you don't do it.

 

[Ennder]

For the Yost defenders: chalk another loss up to the brilliant thinking that is Yost. Why in the hell were the infielders in with the bases loaded and one out in the 10th? That was a sure double play scenario (even BA mentioned this) and Yost the genius had the infielders playing to cut off the run at home. Stupid, stupid, stupid! I hope this moron is gone soon...my blood pressure cannot handle this much longer. I hate stupid people!!

 

This is really a stretch since even at normal depth I doubt we get the double play there.

[jason21nl]

I think if Hall cuts the ball off and goes to 2nd, they turn two(if weeks doesn't bounce the ball to first).

[trwi7]

I think if Hall cuts the ball off and goes to 2nd, they turn two(if weeks doesn't bounce the ball to first).

 

Weeks was playing in. There's no chance he gets to 2nd base fast enough, in the position he was in and then makes a turn and throw to 1st in time. Even if it's Wes Helms running.

[TCSM]

Obviously the offense stunk it up tonight but that doesn't mean Yost, or any coach, should get a free pass. The offense won't score us 10 runs a game so some type of strategy needs to be used.

 

Going with what Hammer had said, that move was absolutely foolish to say the least. I don't know if Yost knows this, but the Milwaukee Brewers are an MLB team, not some High School baseball team.

 

 

Something my friends and I keep saying is; does Yost try to make the "hero" call in these situations verses the better option?

[jeffy]

Nice choice not to have Kapler bunt, dumb Ned.

 

You are not serious there are you? Kapler bunting (maybe) puts Weeks on second with 2 outs...that is exactly the same situation they had anyway after Weeks took second on fielders' indifference.

[jason21nl]

yeah, i meant if they were playing back, my bad. I think you have to play for a double play there especially since the batter hits into a lot of them.

[Hammer]

This is really a stretch since even at normal depth I doubt we get the double play there.

You can't be serious right? That was Wes Freaking Helms running. A double play was a given if the infield was playing at dp depth! Oh yeah, what did they do for the next batter then? They kept the infield in. Did Yost forget that there was already one out? Like I said...stupid move.

 

This to me is obvious Yost bashing. You do realize that we had not scored a run in the game. We have struggled to score runs and had not scored in this game. One run seems pretty important to me there. So if we were playing at double play depth, who says Billy gets to that ball and if the he does, that the double play is turned? I just dont see how much of a reach it is to see what we were doing there. In a 0-0 game that sounds pretty reasonable whereas in a 8-8 game you don't do it.

Of course this is Yost "bashing"! He is costing the team wins by his late game stupidity. There is no reason what-so-ever to have the infield in there. None, zip, zero. There was one out, and a man that cannot even walk on slippery steps running from the batters box. That was the perfect pitch to turn over a double play except the manager had no clue how to finish the inning. He had them playing like they didn't have any outs.

[kmcasper23]

On one hand this loss is not pinned on Yost simply because you have to score at least one run to win a major league baseball game and we didn't do that. It is hard to fault him to much when the offense has scored a whopping 1 run in the last 19 innings.

 

However, Yost does do at least one completely stupid thing each game that makes my blood pressure rise as well and it is getting old. Anyone knows in a situation with the bases loaded and one out with a slower than molases runner at the plate you play the corners in and SS & 2nd back at dp depth. Had they been doing this Hardy had plenty of time to get in front of that ball as opposed to backhanding it, throwing it to weeks and weeks could have honestly run the ball over to 1st himself to get helms out since he is that slow!

[Invader3K]

I agree completely with brewcrew00. Yes, the manager always bears some margin of blame in any loss, but if the offense scores a grand total of ZERO runs in 10 innings, it's really time to look at the 8 guys in the lineup who are supposed to hit the ball and score runs. Oh, but Ned Yost didn't somehow will them to hit with runners in scoring position, so it must be his fault, once again.

[Dustin Block]

Of course this is Yost "bashing"! He is costing the team wins by his late game stupidity.

Give a Yost a break! He didn't get two guys picked off against Philly. He didn't try to stretch a double into a triple with no outs. He didn't overslide third base last night. The vaunted offense just isn't getting it done. Blame the manager all you want, but foul balls and warning track blasts don't get it done.

 

 

(pared back long nested quote --1992)

[igor67]

The defensive position is arguable, but having to resort to Counsell as your pinch hitter in the bottom of the 9th is the real killer. Craig is very useful in lots of pinch situations, but that situation requires a power hitter. With two outs just about everyone on the team is a threat to score from first on a double due to speed (or lumbering freight train size). Alternatively a HR is also a game winner. With two outs those are way more useful than hoping Counsell doesn't make an out and that the next guy can then hit a single.

[Fatter than Joey]

I love how you can come in the vent thread after a loss where the offense didn't score a run, and Mota couldn't make just that one pitch in each at bat that cost him, but the only criticism on the board is of Ned.

 

I think if you actually read the board there is currently criticism o'plenty for just about every Brewer not named Jason Kendall.

 

Some of you must not either understand baseball

 

False. Mostly just Ned.

 

kmcasper23, you do realize every manager in baseball does one completely stupid thing each game right? Whether it's statistically or guessing, RARELY does any manager have a "perfect game."

 

Again False. Every manager does something in every game that doesn't produce the desired results -- that is true, but most of those decisions are dependable, and not stupid. Ned Yost has turned stupidity into an artform. No one here is hoping for a perfect game from Ned Yost -- just less stupid ones.

 

He didn't overslide third base last night.

 

Having Braun trying to steal 3rd base with 2 outs is the epitome of stupidity.