Designated Lineup Thread / Latest... Haudricourt: Kendall Batting Ninth is Working (reply #113)

[rluzinski]

I think you will consistently see numbers similar to last year for both players throughout their careers. These guys have HOF caliber talent. I guess I'm curious what indications, if any, there are that they could not maintain similar results over time?

 

Any time a player has an OPS over 1.000, there's a reasonable chance that he just had his career year. That's doubly true for a rookie. There just aren't many players who have a "true" talent level that high. Would I expect (over 50% chance) neither to ever match their seasons last year? Naaa. I'd probably expect some regression this year frm Prince but I think he'll play at a high level for many years. Braun is a bit more of a wild card. He had a monster year as a rookie but seems to struggle somewhat with plate discipline. Should we be surprised if he puts up a bunch of .275/.340/.550 seasons, without ever being to match his rookie compaign? He wouldn't be surprised nor disappointed.

[joepepsi]

Love Bill at third base, but I am not so happy with him batting fifth. I think Hart should bat fifth, moving Bill to sixth. Hart has a great, short swing, and about the same power as Bill. They need to get Hart more at bats and RBI chances.

I agree. In fact, I'll go farther and suggest the season should have opened with Hart batting 3rd, Prince 4th, Braun 5th.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

Well said on Braun, rluz. It's easy to forget that Braun came up red-hot, and proceeded to get even hotter against LHP. We railed on Geovany Soto this past offseason, citing an unsustainably high BABIP. If we're going to be fair, the same should go for Brewers players. Braun put up unsustainable numbers not only in terms of his BABIP, but also against lefties. That said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with .340.550/.890!

 

 

It's just really... annoying.

 

Yep. It's Yost once again managing for the way he hopes things turn out, instead of the way things are likely to unfold. When your manager is managing in the lame attempt to (what he thinks will) create SB opportunities, imo the fans have every right to be frustrated. Even in his best seasons, Fielder will still not get on base about 60% of the time -- plenty of chances for Corey to run, especially since Bill sees & swings-&-misses at so many pitches.

[lcbj68c]

I hope the past few games goes to show that it's the players inability to hit regardless of position in the batting order and that the argument is quite silly. 3rd or 4th. 4th or 3rd. 6 in one, half dozen in the other. Fielder and Braun just aren't hitting the ball regardless of where they bat. Until that improves, a simple switch in the batting order isnt seemingly igniting anything. Like a "magical light switch" some thought that would turn on.

[DonMoney4Mgr]

This is the lineup I would like based largly on last year which is a greater sample size.

 

1) Weeks (for now)

2) Hardy

3) Braun

4) Fielder

5) Hart

6) Kapler/Cameron (Hall if Gross is in the lineup)

7) Hall (Gross)

8) Pitcher

9) Kendall

 

2 suggestions for Nedley; Don't overanalyze the batting order, go with what was successful for most of last year. And forget about the lefty-righty thing all the time, especially when your left handed bats off the bench suck.

[RyDogg66]

Rotoworld is reporting that Yost has made the switch to Hart 5h and Hall 6th, forgive me if this is old news.

 

Brewers manager Ned Yost has moved Corey Hart up to the fifth spot in the lineup, bumping Bill Hall to the six hole.

Hart hit in the fifth spot with Hall getting a day off yesterday, and Prince Fielder hit his first homer of the year. He probably offers better protection for Fielder, as he is hitting almost 100 points better than Hall, and has been a little more selective at the plate.

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

[logan82]

Hardball Times Article on batting the pitcher 8th. I am off to play some videogames and will read it manana.

 

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-benefit-of-batting-eighth/

[Ennder]

I really think the difference between Hall and Hart batting 5th and 6th is negligible so I don't think Yost is a hero or a goat for any of this. The difference between these two configurations isn't enough that random luck won't decide which is better. Same with Braun 3rd and Fielder 4th, it is just such a non issue that I could care less how it ends up. If anything Braun 4th is probably slightly better from a technical standpoint but it just doesn't matter enough to worry about.

[1992casey]

I've moved some of the posts that were more about Nedly's personality than about the lineup to this point in the Yost thread.

[zzzmanwitz]

Once Cameron returns, what consideration should be given to this lineup?

 

Hart

Cameron

Braun

Fielder

Hall

Weeks

Hardy

Pitcher

Kendall

 

Maybe even go Hardy, Kendall, Pitcher, Weeks?

[TooLiveBrew]

I want no part of Kendall batting 2. I'd love to see Braun/Hart 2 (with the other at #5), & Cameron 3. However, I'm sure that since anyone that 'knows' baseball like Yost 'knows' that your #3 hitter 'has' to be a guy that's worthy of batting in the shiny #3 slot. That said, I'm not going to lose much sleep over Cameron hitting 2.

[jhart05]

I have not lost faith in Weeks in the leadoff spot yet.

 

Once everyone else, besides Kendall because he has been, starts hitting like we all know they can...if Weeks is still laging behind everyone else at that point, then it may be time to take him out of the leadoff spot.

 

I really hope for the team's sake Weeks turns it around, because the only other option for that spot is probably Corey. Which I'd rather not see because I feel Hart is too valuable in the middle of the order to move up to the leadoff spot.

[Glennron]

Maybe even go Hardy, Kendall, Pitcher, Weeks?

The reason Yost goes with Kendall #9 is because it pretty much adds another lead-off man. Kendall is good for that spot cause he can give you decent OBP to set the plate for the middle of the order, but has little-to-no power. If Weeks gets moved from the leadoff spot (I still think he should stay there for now, but if he struggles into the future then who knows) I'd prefer him maybe #5/6 because he could then drive in the middle of the order when they get on base.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing Hart hit in the 2 spot because he's probably going to get more fastballs/better pitches to hit, knowing that Fielder and Braun are coming up behind him. If he's back down at 5 or 6, pitchers will know that Bill "swing away" Hall and Hardy are up, so Hart might not get too much to hit.

[SeriesFinale]

Pretty interesting breakdown of the whys and hows...I'll give Yost credit on this one.

 

I know a lot of you won't though, so have at it!

[RyDogg66]

Yeah it was a really smart move by Yost, only if he would bat Braun 2 and Fielder 3, then Ned would really be on to something, and would get his best two hitters up more often. Nothing like getting to the ninth and having two runners on base (Kendall and Weeks) and two outs and having ACK! Tony Gwynn Jr up to bat.

[jeffy]

Here is what I do not understand...if Kendall, Weeks, Braun, Fielder is a good order after the 1st inning, why not just have Kendall lead off and start the game with that order?

[davego]

I was thinking the same as Jeff after reading the article.

[RyDogg66]

Here is what I do not understand...if Kendall, Weeks, Braun, Fielder is a good order after the 1st inning, why not just have Kendall lead off and start the game with that order?

That isnt a bad point, especially in light of the fact that Yost wont bat Braun 2 and Fielder 3. What Yost is essentially saying by batting Kapler/Cameron/Gwynn in the 2 hole is that after the first inning he prefers a line up of Kendall-Weeks-CF-Braun-Fielder, with Fielder batting a jaw-dropping 5th. I can't give Yost all the credit for this move because he hasnt made the requisite move with Braun/Fielder to truly benefit from Kendall batting 9th rather than the pitcher.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

"Kendall has performed well in the nine-spot this season, batting .314 with eight doubles in 20 games. It should be noted that he has not batted above .300 since 2004, so perhaps batting ninth has rejuvenated the 33-year-old backstop," noted Kendrena.

 

(That's from the blog entry) Or, Kendrena, he's playing over his head. That's so clearly the more obvious answer imo. And that leads into...

 

 

why not just have Kendall lead off and start the game with that order?

 

It means you give the highest number of PA to your worst hitter. 'Worst' is a relative term, but in terms of talent when discussing our 'regular' 8, Kendall is low-man in the pecking order. His total lack of power is the reason. If Jason can prove that his .300-ish BA is sustainable, then the discussion is different imo... batting him leadoff would make some sense, then.

[BrewCrewForever]

Here is a lineup I wouldn't mind seeing when Cameron is back:

 

1. Weeks-2B

2. Hardy- SS

3. Braun- LF

4. Fielder- 1B

5. Cameron- CF

6. Hall- 3B

7. Hart- RF

8. Pitcher

9. Kendall- C

 

The reason I go Hart behind Hall is he is more patient and would have to be batting in front of the pitcher. I think Hardy hits better in the 2 hole and I like the idea of Cameron batting behind Prince.

[TooLiveBrew]

Swap Hardy with Hart (or any one of Braun/Hart/Fielder at 2, as long as JJ is 7th), and I'm loving that lineup.

[endaround]

Hardy is a not a good hitter. He's Hall with less power. I don't know why people keep think he's something he's not. Why give you're 7th or 8th best hitter the 2nd most PAs?

[Ennder]

hardy since the all star break of his rookie year (I refuse to count that first half of stats since they don't really tell us anything about him imo).

 

280 games, 1027 AB.

 

.272/.325/.443/.768. 25.68 AB/HR

 

Not an amazing hitter by any means but not useless either. If he can see marginal gains with age he can grow into a decent hitter.

[DrWood]

hardy is not the same as hall with less power. hardy strikes out much less.

[endaround]

Not an amazing hitter by any means but not useless either. If he can see marginal gains with age he can grow into a decent hitter.

I'm not saying he's useless, as a shortstop he's a good hitter. But compared to all other Brewers he's in competition with Kendall to be 8th best.

 

I don't care how outs are made. I'd rather have the #2 hitter be a k machine--less chance of stupid hit and runs and GIDP with Weeks on first.

 

 

(pared back long quote --1992)