Designated Lineup Thread / Latest... Haudricourt: Kendall Batting Ninth is Working (reply #113)

[logan82]

Weeks is the one that really stands out for me in that list. He is hitting the ball well, just not getting a lot of hits. If he were striking out a ton or something I could see a fan questioning it but if you have watched the games you know Weeks isn't really hitting that poorly.

More importantly, Weeks is getting on base. Even without getting hits he is finding ways to get on. Not the last couple days, but in general.

[TooLiveBrew]

*Gasp!* Rickie Weeks... on base?! Man, if he has any power, this guy might turn out to be good after all. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

Since this is the designated lineup thread....

 

How long of a leash does Rickie get in the leadoff spot? I'm NOT saying make the change, but I'm curious as to how long he can go without getting on base before a change needs be made. One hot month is not worth waiting five months for, IMO.

[TooLiveBrew]

for me, he'd get about 5 more months. I have no worries about Weeks's ability to get on-base for 600+ PAs.

[logan82]

Marc Newfield of Dreams wrote:

How long of a leash does Rickie get in the leadoff spot? I'm NOT saying make the change, but I'm curious as to how long he can go without getting on base before a change needs be made. One hot month is not worth waiting five months for, IMO.

You mean the guy who just came off of a league record tying streak for scoring runs? I would agree with TLB, about 5 1/2 months.

[davego]

More then anything, what I have learned the most @ BF is that batting order matters little, except when Ned fills it out.

[ELCABALLO45]

Well looks like we get our wish...

 

Braun and Fielder asks Yost to switch the line up.

 

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080412&content_id=2520857&vkey=news_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil

[Brewer Fever]

Props to Fielder and Braun for stepping up and making the request to their thick-skulled manager.

[kramnoj]

It's interesting that Yost used "placebo". Even if it shouldn't matter, the fact that this is in the heads of Braun and Fielder indicates that the placebo may just work. I never really understood Yost's reasoning for making the move, but I wasn't too vocal about it.

 

The Brewers are in a weird place. They are winning, so changing strategies wouldn't normally be an issue. But some of the Brewers are clearly struggling at the plate, and I would rather they address that before too many games are lost.

[OOOverbay]

If it's gotten into their heads this much, just switch it already. If they keep "struggling" (and I use that term loosely) then it will be pretty clear to them that they just have to concentrate a little more on working out some kinks/patience.

[rluzinski]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why Prince being protected by Braun is the cause of his struggles. I thought the (unproven) theory was that an unprotected player will do worse?

 

I think it really doesn't matter who bats first, so if Braun and Fielder want it switched, why not. At least it would break up the only two lefties that are in the lineup.

[jason21nl]

well prince and braun obviously think it will help otherwise they wouldn't have said anything.

[trwi7]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why Prince being protected by Braun is the cause of his struggles.

I'm still waiting for somebody to give me Yost's reasoning for the switch in the first place. He said "he wants Braun to run more and he can't do that batting in front of Fielder." So then when Cameron comes back he will (or would I guess now) be batting in front of Fielder so he wouldn't get any chance to steal. I mean I could understand it if Yost didn't completely contradict the reason that he flipped Braun and Fielder with Cameron's batting spot.

[logan82]

"It's a placebo," Yost said.

 

I have to say I agree. I don't think it makes any difference who is 3rd or 4th. Switch them if it makes them happy. They should be batting 2 and 4 anyway, not 3 and 4.

[TooLiveBrew]

well prince and braun obviously think it will help otherwise they wouldn't have said anything.

But players don't always know or understand what's actually best for them. Often times a player 'feels' something is better just like a fan can tell you that it 'seems' like Rickie Weeks sucks.

"Placebo" is a great descriptor/analogy, fwiw.

[pmg4]

Directly from the thread title: "Switch Braun and Fielder" with the reasoning that "ain't broke, don't fix."

Directly from the thread title: "When does Kendall bat 2nd?" with the reasoning that it is working so well that it needs adjustment.

 

If you're going to be inconsistent, at least try to hide it among different threads.

[brewers19]

They were originally separate threads that we merged together.

[jason21nl]

But players don't always know or understand what's actually best for them.

 

Players do however know what position in the line up they are more comfortable in. I would bet that Braun feels more comfortable hitting in front of prince or in the 3 hole rather than the 4 and Prince the same way.

 

Maybe Braun feels the need to have to hit more HRs because he is batting in the clean up position, and that is contributing to him swinging at anything and everything. I know he is a free swinger anyway, but batting in the 4th could have an even greater effect on his free swinging.

[naivin]

Placebo is absolutely correct. The fact that they talked about it and want it changed, tells me it is completely mental with both of them right now and they are looking for easy answers. Would switching them potentially help them get past it and start hitting? Sure. Maybe it would, but what if it doesn't? What if he switched the line up and they still don't hit? The fact is, these guys just need to start hitting, and if they can overcome their struggles within the lineup configuration Ned prefers, where perhaps they are a bit uncomfortable at the moment, both they and the team will likely be better off for it.

 

I would bet that Bill Hall, JJ, and Cprey Hart would all be "more comfortable" hitting in front of Braun and/or Fielder. Does that mean we should move them up? After all, they'd be more comfortable

[1992casey]

They were originally separate threads that we merged together.

 

The mods have found that it's almost always most expeditious to keep all general lineup talk in one designated thread. About 107% of the time, discussion of one or two lineup spots will spill over into discussion the rest of the lineup.

 

In this case, merging was a slam dunk. Both threads would have been appropriate places to talk about the opinion held by many that either Fielder or Braun should be hitting #2.

 

The designated lineup thread also offers a place to post full lineups. Doing that outside the lineup thread tends to sidetrack discussion big time.

[mikemercury]

I think we're overlooking one of the biggest reasons why Prince should bat 3rd. Teams will bring in a LOOGY to try and get Prince out, but then they face a tough call of leaving that guy in to face Braun, or make a change for a righty. I can understand 100% why Braun would want the protection of hitting in front of Prince, but he needs to learn some plate discipline. Jeff Francour would also never walk, and his sophomore numbers began to drop until he made the adjustment. The only reason I can think of Prince wanting to hit cleanup might be the mentality that cleanup hitters get paid more?

[kramnoj]

I would be surprised if Prince's motivation here was money. I think it's much easier to believe that Prince feels comforatble in the role that he had last year, and is unsure of his role now. He might feel pressure to have a different approach, otherwise why would the manager change where he hit in the lineup?

[naivin]

As for Yost's reasoning, lets not forget that this is also related in a way to Kendall batting 9th. The philosophy is all about maximizing opportunities for the Brewers 2 best hitters. Let's also not forget that this is not entirely Yost...the stats folks play a huge roll in this, just as they did with the Kendall thing. These are young superstar caliber players and they need to make the adjustment and for lack of a better term, make themselves better players. Alfonso Soriano refuses to make adjustments or make any sort of effort to hit anywhere but lead off and forces his managers to put him there. Is that teh approach we want out of these two guys? I know I don't. Get over it and hit.

[kramnoj]

Naivin, I don't understand your post. You think Braun and Fielder can be better than they were last year? I think there's a significant chance that we saw each of their career years last year.

[naivin]

Naivin, I don't understand your post. You think Braun and Fielder can be better than they were last year? I think there's a significant chance that we saw each of their career years last year.

I think there is a significant chance - somewhere close to 100%, that you're out of your mind.

 

My point is that if they are that affected by being 1 spot higher or lower in the line-up, then there is significant room for them to develop as players. They both obviously have natural talent. They now need to devlop a bit as players mentally and figure out that their spot in the lineup is not why they have gotten off to slow starts. As I said, get over it and hit.