Does Coco get booed this week?

[Brewguru2]

Coco will, and SHOULD, get booed. I can only make it to the July 12/13 games. I will be booing louder than anyone I have ever booed in my life. (I'm not much of a booer either.) The chump left a legit contender to go to a team that is NOT the same caliber as the Brewers for $4M more before the Brewers were able to match the offer. What makes this even worse is the fact that he said he liked being a Brewer and wanted to be one......LIAR! Cordero obviously doesn't care about winning because Cincy hasn't been a contender forever, nor will they be until they unload some of their terrible contracts.

 

So, say you are working at Company X and a big competitor of your company offers you a 10% raise. Say you're making $70,000/year and the competitor offers you $80,000/year. You're telling me you wouldn't leave? Out of some sense of "loyalty"?? That's a crock.

 

I don't understand people who boo former players (except, in the case of Sheffield, those who ripped the city or didn't give their all when they played here). Milwaukee is bush league in this regard. Why the hatred for Carlos Lee?

 

It makes absolutely no sense.

[Fatter than Joey]

I don't have a problem with the fact that he left for 4 extra million. I have a problem with the fact that he didn't even give Melvin a chance to make a counter-offer, or even tell Melvin what his offer from the Reds was. Doesn't seem he really was invested in staying here.

 

It's the nature of things -- Vargas and Wise got released -- If we think that is OK, then we have to expect that players are always going to look out for their best interest, just as selfishly as the Brewers look out for their interest.

 

The way I look at it, while Cordero was here -- he was probably our best pitcher for those 1.5 seasons (including Sheets), he never griped or squawked, always took the ball, and without a doubt contributed in a large way to our team's progress. The Brewers got back every dime they put into him.

 

As a player, I hope he does well for the Reds -- just like I hope Overbay turns it around for Toronto, (Estrada not so much)...

[Fatter than Joey]

The chump left a legit contender to go to a team that is NOT the same caliber as the Brewers for $4M more before the Brewers were able to match the offer.

 

$4M is a chuck of money. I don't think it is clear that the Reds are not the same caliber as the Brewers -- They have a pretty solid group of youngsters that could put together a pretty filthy rotation.

 

What makes this even worse is the fact that he said he liked being a Brewer and wanted to be one......LIAR!

 

I think he liked being a Brewer, and I think it is as simple as the Reds offered him more money.

 

This would be like if Ortiz left the Red Sox (one of the best at his particular position) to go to this year's Tampa squad.

 

No it is not. The Brewers are not a 96 win team, and the Reds are not a 66 win team.

 

nor will they be until they unload some of their terrible contracts.

 

What terrible contracts do they have? -- Griffy who hit 30 bombs and had a .372 OBP made $8.5M -- Dunn who had 40 jacks and a .382 OBP made $10M

 

We paid Jenks+Mench about what we paid Dunn last year.

 

The Reds have some good reason for optimism -- if Cordero is closing for a Harang, Cueto, Bailey, Vozquez, Arroyo rotation -- and those pitchers develop -- he will rack up some save opportunities.

[pg44]

I don't see why Jenkins would get booed since the Brewers basically declined to offer him a contract (or a reasonable one). I was just looking at last nights boxes and clicked on a players career stats who had a big night and found he had some very similar numbers to Geoff Jenkins:

 

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVE

1241

4430

663

1227

288

22

213

706

2198

396

1126

31

14

.347

.496

.277

1242 4525 678 1229 260 26 196 719 2129 320 877 127 60 .325 .470 .272

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/trans.gif

The first player listed is Geoff Jenkins, the second.....Torii Hunter. Hunter got, what, $90mil over 5 years and Jenkins got $13mil over 2 and the Brewers weren't will to pay that (and rightly so when you can put Braun out there for $450K). Now, I know Jenkins and Hunter are not the same player and you have to consider alot of factors, but, the numbers say Jenkins was pretty productive during his tenure in Milwaukee. I, for one, will cheer him.

[RyDogg66]

I wont boo. So he left for more money. Big deal, every player would have done the same thing. I dont think he is an elite closer so I happy the Reds will be on the hook for the next 4 year with him.

[Menotti80]

I will Boo silently in my head while watching at home, and when we cause him to blow a save, I may stand up at act like Peter from family guy when he wins in Yahtzee while naked:

 

Peter: Yahtzee! I win! Yeah! In your face! In your face!

*Peter thrusts his naked body into Meg's face.*

[jazzytrav]

But guys, wait!! You forget that "it wasn't up to [him]"!

Is this supposed to be directed at me? If so, it hardly seems necessary. I was asking a simple question about how much Coco was involved in the negotiations.

 

Either way, I just think it's stupid to boo former players outside of Sheffield. Coco never said anything bad about Milwaukee, and in fact said many good things about Milwaukee. He was very good while he was here, and he left for more money, just like any other player would...just like most of us would if given the chance. Are we 100% certain that Melvin was even interested in matching the offer?

[Team Canada]

No, it's not directed at you, it's a direct quote from Cordero.

[BrewCrewWS2008]

Coco should be booed, hes a sellout, he said he wanted to be a Brewer and a non contending team offered him i little more money and he booked before we even had a shot to match it.

 

As for Jenkins... if im at the games and someone near me booes there will be some unpleasant words towards that individual. In my eyes that person is no better than a cub fan. How can you even consider yourself a Brewer fan if you honestely go to a game and boo a guy who gave everything he had to a crappy team for so long, he was the heart and soul of the brewers! He wanted to finis his career here but the team just didn't have a place for him and let him go. If im at the games he's getting a standing o from me! I'll even make a sign..maybe. Same will go for big ben if he leaves after the season. The franchise was put on Jenkins and Sheets back and they handled it great no need to boo

 

nothing will make me happier than to see coco get booed a ton and blow a save! he deserves it in my opinion

[TooLiveBrew]

and the Reds are not a 66 win team.

 

Neither are the 2008 Rays, hence the example. I actually thought it was a pretty accurate comparison.

[Fatter than Joey]

Neither are the 2008 Rays, hence the example. I actually thought it was a pretty accurate comparison.

 

Really? -- I think the gap between the Brewers/Reds is much smaller than the RedSox/Rays. I have a hard time seeing how the comparison works.

[Thurston Fluff]

Cordero road ERA in 2007: 6.55

 

Why wouldn't you want him in the game? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Because he was a much better pitcher in Miller park?

 

I'll boo a bad guy or one who said bad things about my team but that's about it. I don't really care If Coco went for a small amount more than he could have made here since that small amount could be the differance between helping his distant cousin or friend vs just his immediate family and still maintain his lifestyle. More is more. As far as him not giving Melvin the chance to match the offer agents would lose a lot of bargaining power if the team they played for didn't have to bid agianst others. If I knew the agent would come to me with the best offer and all I had to do was wait to match I'd never offer my freeagents a contract. I'd simply wait until his best offer came in and decide if I wanted to match it. Not a very good way to get more for your client IMO. There has to be a fear of losing a player or there is no way to get a better deal. Nothing wrong with that.

[azcheesehead]

Coco will, and SHOULD, get booed. I can only make it to the July 12/13 games. I will be booing louder than anyone I have ever booed in my life. (I'm not much of a booer either.) The chump left a legit contender to go to a team that is NOT the same caliber as the Brewers for $4M more before the Brewers were able to match the offer. What makes this even worse is the fact that he said he liked being a Brewer and wanted to be one......LIAR! Cordero obviously doesn't care about winning because Cincy hasn't been a contender forever, nor will they be until they unload some of their terrible contracts.

So, say you are working at Company X and a big competitor of your company offers you a 10% raise. Say you're making $70,000/year and the competitor offers you $80,000/year. You're telling me you wouldn't leave? Out of some sense of "loyalty"?? That's a crock.

 

I don't understand people who boo former players (except, in the case of Sheffield, those who ripped the city or didn't give their all when they played here). Milwaukee is bush league in this regard. Why the hatred for Carlos Lee?

 

It makes absolutely no sense.

So a major league player's ultimate goal is to get as much money as possible? I guess I am from the mindset that baseball is a TEAM game with the ultimate goal of WINNING. Not hitting the bank. But, that's just me. Cordero's chances of winning a world title GREATLY diminished when he jumped ship to the Reds. You wanna know where my loyalty stands if I play pro ball? With whatever team can get me a ring.

[azcheesehead]

and the Reds are not a 66 win team.

 

Neither are the 2008 Rays, hence the example. I actually thought it was a pretty accurate comparison.

Thank you. I found it to be a pretty good one after I thought of a bunch of different scenarios, coupled with the coverage that the Sox receive on ESPN, FSN (insert state), SI.com, etc. The Rays are team with youngsters (Longoria, Upton, etc.) that are a sexy pick to do well. Much like the Reds (Cueto, Bailey, etc.) who people think could be okay....personally I don't see it, but ask SI.com. The contract on Adam Dunn, IMO, won't be exercised at the end of his deal because he strikes out in HUGE numbers and isn't exactly a Gold Glove caliber outfielder....he's making $9M a year right now. How happy would you be with that contract if you're a Brewer fan and he's a Brewer?

[fondybrewfan]

Absolutely he gets booed, this puts the icing on the cake......

 

Cordero says Brewers blew chance

By Tom Haudricourt

Tuesday, Apr 8 2008, 04:18 PM

I just talked with Francisco Cordero and he said the Brewers blew their chance to keep him as their closer by not agreeing to talk about a contract extension last spring.

 

Cordero, who set the club record with 44 saves in 2007, signed a free-agent deal with Cincinnati in late November and is back in town as the Reds play the Brewers tonight. The Reds topped the Brewers' four-year, $42 million offer to Cordero with a $46 million deal over the same term.

 

But Cordero said it never would have come to that had the Brewers agreed to talk about an extension last spring before the season began. He also said he would have signed for less money at that time.

 

"They would have taken a risk and I would have taken a risk," said Cordero. "They could have had me for less money. They said they wanted to see me pitch."

 

Once Cordero hit the free-agent market after the season, he said he was fair game for any team. He said the Brewers made their $42 million offer before Thanksgiving and the sides were supposed to talk again on the following Monday. Instead, Cordero said GM Doug Melvin called and gave a Friday deadline to take the deal.

 

"Why would I like that?" Cordero said of the deadline.

 

When the Reds came in with their $46 million offer, Cordero said his agent, Bean Stringfellow, told the Brewers they had a better offer from a team "in the same division."

 

"I think (the Brewers) thought we were bluffing," said Cordero. "We really did have a better offer.

 

"We said they needed to make a better offer. They didn't do it."

 

Cordero said he enjoyed his time in Milwaukee and wanted to stay here, which is why he wanted an extension last spring. Instead, after losing Cordero in the fall, the Brewers revamped their bullpen and signed free-agent closer Eric Gagne to a one-year, $10 million deal.

 

"(Free agency) is open for anybody, not just one team," said Cordero. "The Cincinnati Reds showed a lot of interest in me. I thought the Brewers would be more aggressive than the Cincinnati Reds because I was in a Brewers uniform."

 

So, that's Cordero's version of the story. I'll talk to Melvin about why he didn't want to make an offer to Cordero last spring and let you know what he says.

[jazzytrav]

How does that put the icing on the cake? The way it sounds from that, Cordero wanted to stay and the Brewers weren't that interested. If this story carries some truth, then I would see no reason to boo Cordero. I guess I'm confused why you think this "puts the icing on the cake"...

[visitorsdugout]

Coco gives the Reds what cost them 10-15 wins last year, a way to straighten out the BP. Weathers goes to setup (he did a decent closing job last year but the 7th and 8th innings killed the Reds. They were the worst team in baseball in scoring differential in the 7th and 8th innings. Now Weathers can handle the 8th and Burton the 7th). I'm just amazed the Reds came up with 46 million. The way we understand it Cincy, Coco's agent was more responsible for him not getting back with the Brewers. Least that's the way its presented here.

 

As for Dunn. Yeah $9 million is too much for a guy who has 4 straight years with 100 runs 100 rbis 40 homers and an OBP around .400. Who cares if he strikes out? Do you really give a hoot when Prince Ks? An out is an out. Period. Two things drive offense. First OBP. Even when Dunn slumps he's valuable because he walks about once a game. 2nd Power. Dunn has that to spare. His defense is better since he got his knee cleaned out - he played on a gimpy knee all last season, easily his worst defensive year. Yep, he's worth every penny.

 

Cincy is past the really bad contracts. Junior won't be extended after this season and the Reds have a slew of young talent. This year the Reds will do what the Brew Crew did last year when they emerged. I know - They still have to prove it on the field. Johnny Cueto will start that tonight.

 

Anyway, I have to hand to your FO. When you guys lost Coco, then a couple more relievers I thought your staff would be shot. They've done a heckuva job reassembling your bullpen.

[tosabrewfan]

Jazzy,

It puts the icing on the cake because Cordero is basically saying that once he started pitching well (read: once he figured he could make more money elsewhere) he did not want to stay. Cordero has every right to seek more money - Brewers fans have every right to boo him.

[AJAY]

I wish players would just come out and say "I left for the money". It's stupid how they all leave for more money but then try to turn around and blame someone else.

[trwi7]

It's not up to me whether or not I boo him.

[SeriesFinale]

I really think it's a little ridiculous that Haudricourt is going to try to get Melvin to tell "his side." Who cares about the "he said, he said" at this point? I can't imagine Doug will touch this with a ten-foot pole at any rate.

[jazzytrav]

I guess I see something completely different.

 

"They would have taken a risk and I would have taken a risk," said Cordero. "They could have had me for less money. They said they wanted to see me pitch."

Fair enough. The Brewers didn't want to extend him because they wanted to see him pitch first. They did this knowing that if he did well (which he did), he would come with a higher price tag after the season.

 

Once Cordero hit the free-agent market after the season, he said he was fair game for any team.

Again, fair enough. That's what the free-agent market is for.

 

He said the Brewers made their $42 million offer before Thanksgiving and the sides were supposed to talk again on the following Monday. Instead, Cordero said GM Doug Melvin called and gave a Friday deadline to take the deal.

So they had a time to talk set aside...on Monday. And Melvin calls and says, "Give me an answer by Friday". Again, failing to see where Cordero is the bad guy.

 

"Why would I like that?" Cordero said of the deadline.

I wonder the same thing.

 

When the Reds came in with their $46 million offer, Cordero said his agent, Bean Stringfellow, told the Brewers they had a better offer from a team "in the same division."

 

"I think (the Brewers) thought we were bluffing," said Cordero. "We really did have a better offer.

 

"We said they needed to make a better offer. They didn't do it.

Stringfellow tells the Brewers that they have a better offer; Melvin apparently thinks they're bluffing and doesn't make a counter-offer. So, can someone once again explain to me how this makes him such a bad guy that he deserves to be booed? I'm not saying that I believe all of this, but why not at least give him the benefit of the doubt?

 

Sheffield gets booed, and now Cordero? How do these two deserve the same treatment from Brewer fans?

[azcheesehead]

I wish players would just come out and say "I left for the money". It's stupid how they all leave for more money but then try to turn around and blame someone else.

THANK YOU! He left for the money, not to win a championship. It's the epitome of greed, IMO.

[jazzytrav]

Where in Haudricort's story does it say that he left for a championship? He basically said he left for more money. What's wrong with that? Besides, it's not like the Reds are some horrible team. They have a bright future, and if Coco stays healthy, he could be a real leader for them in getting to that future.

 

If a player stays here for less, you applaud him. If he doesn't, and goes somewhere else for more money, what reason do you really have to boo him? Because he's "selling out" for doing exactly the same thing that any of us would have done in the same situation?

[azcheesehead]

Well, if my goal in my occupation was to win a championship, I would go to a team that would help me attain that. I don't think it's unfair to say that the Brewers stand a better chance of winning a title than the Reds do. So for you to say that any of us would take the money in the same situation, you're wrong. If I were a pro player in his situation, I would have taken the Brewers offer. If I were a money monger I would have at LEAST allowed the Brewers to match the offer.