Why is the board convinced Sheets is gone after this year?

[dadofandrew]

The funny thing is, I remember hearing we needed to give Sexson "whatever it took" to keep him around...how would that have worked out?

 

Sheets is unlikely to get healthy as he gets older. He's very likely gone, and a small market team really cannot risk paying him what it will take to keep him.

[uwisfan]

Prince is gonna cost maybe 10M more..the rest that are due for raises will be minimal. I agree the Crew need to find a way to get Soup off the books. Don't know if they can find a taker for his salary, but that would be huge if so.

[uwisfan]

I've never been in the "whatever it takes" crowd for any player, much less Sexson..I was disappointed they offered Lee so much and even the Coco offer I thought was excessive. The Brewers scouting department has shown an ability to identify and develop top-tier hitting talent, so any hitter is replaceable as far as I'm concerned. Can't pay Prince? Here comes LaPorta. I don't see the need to overpay Hart based on the same reasoning. Yes, he's a very solid piece of this team, but no need to throw a ton at him when they have prospects in the minors that can replace him. If the Crew was rich in top-tier pitching prospects, I wouldn't hesitate to dump him. Unfortunately, that's simply not the case. We have groomed and brought up our best pitching prospects for the next 2 years. There is no #1 waiting for his spot on the roster to open up.

[logan82]

I think in the end Sheets leaves over the years more so than the money per. I think he will end up with a 4+ year contract, but we won't offer much more than maybe 3 with an option year.

[kmcasper23]

You can tell by the way Attanasio talks about it, that he doesn't expect Sheets to be back. The Crew will either take Sheet's salary and give it to another SP though unlikely since not many good ones hit the open market. More likely than not we will be banking on a minor league pitcher to step up, maybe Zach Jackson, or if we can get a good college pitcher with one of our 6 picks in the first two rounds that can be fast tracked through the system.

[Oldcity]

I guess I'm not sold on Sheets being gone yet.

 

Jeff Suppan says Hi.

Suppan's disappearing no-trade-clause after '08 says, "Right back at ya."

 

[splitterpfj]

Look at the deals for Haren and Bedard, and pick your target for next winter. The Brewers may choose to keep Cameron, they may decide Gwynn is their next CF, or they may decide to move Weeks into the OF - this would make LaPorta expendable, and possibly Gwynn as well. Escobar will be on this team next year, if Weeks stays at 2B, that means Hardy or Hall becomes available, and then we get to minor leaguers like Gamel, Jeffress, and anyone else who might be on some GM's radar.

 

The Brewers will draft all day this spring, and will probably be set up to do it again next season, my bet is that they let Sheets walk, and deal for a replacement.

[brettac1]

The problem with the "Sheets and Gagne are gone" thing is that that only accounts for '09 salaries. Not '10, '11, and '12 like Sheets' contract would run through in all likelihood.

 

This is almost a strawman argument, really. Sheets being back is as close to a "no chance" propostion as you'll see.

 

The rotation will be fine with Gallardo maturing into an ace-like pitcher and Parra stepping into the middle of the rotation. I highly doubt that the rotation will be Gallardo, Villy, Parra, Suppan, Bush though. I would guess that one of, if not both, of Suppan and Bush are replaced by pitchers outside the organization (since outside of Parra there isn't a MLB pitcher in the system by next year). It's going to be time to consider trading someone like Hardy, and next offseason might not be a bad time to do it.

[logan82]

Stevo wrote:

Suppan's disappearing no-trade-clause after '08 says, "Right back at ya."

Limited no trade clause. He still gets to pick 8 teams every year.

[TwinsBrewersWorldSeries]

Personally, i think Sheets is more important to the Brewers (over the next five years) than Fielder. What we're facing is testing Mark A's resolve to be a winner. In the short term, he (Mark A) might need to absorb a slight loss financially to afford a winning team, but this will only make the Brewers that more marketable when the new TV/Radio deal is negotiated. I really believe that we can become the Oakland A's of the late 90s early 2000s, and maybe get over the hump by keeping our team intact. It might require a payroll of $110-120M, but i really believe we can keep nearly everyone worth keeping in the fold on that budget.

 

Without Sheets, we maybe can still be competitive, or challenge for a division title, but to win in the playoffs, we need a Sheets. A pitcher of his calibur will cost equal, if not more on the market, and we simply do not have the goods to trade for a Sheets without significantly weakening some other part of the team. 4 Years at $15M per with a team option for a 5th year at $20M should get it done. It could be a "franchise crippling contract", but the fact is, we will never be closer than we are now to reaching/winning a world series. If we don't resign sheets, the window is closed, and it doesn't matter who we are paying....

 

Given his injury history, i think 5 years $80 million gets it done.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I wonder if the Brewers would trade Sheets before the deadline if somehow the team went in the tank and was out of contention. It's not something that's fun to think about, but not impossible.

[Sheets4theHOF]

Limited no trade clause. He still gets to pick 8 teams every year.

I'm probably wrong on this, but I thought he picks 8 teams he can't be traded to. I doubt Suppan would be denying trades to contenders who would be looking to trade for a pitcher like Jeff.

 

[logan82]

Sheets4theHOF wrote:

I'm probably wrong on this, but I thought he picks 8 teams he can't be traded to. I doubt Suppan would be denying trades to contenders who would be looking to trade for a pitcher like Jeff.

My understanding is that he picks the teams at the start of every year. That is a large portion of teams. With a little research I am sure that he could make it work out so that he picks the only 8 teams that would be willing to either take on or afford his contract.

 

Given his injury history, i think 5 years $80 million gets it done.

 

I think it might be possible he accepts something like that. The problem is that I don't think the Brewers want to do a 5 year contract. To be honest I don't blame them.

[Team Canada]

True, but the chances of the 8 teams he picks (KC, TB, etc) probably aren't going to match up exactly with the best trade partners. I really hope we can unload him after this year, unless he pitches like it's the NLDS all year.

 

My heart says keep Ben, but my head says there's no way it'll happen. As has been stated many times before, it's a catch 22 in that if he doesn't do well, we won't want him, and if he does, then we can't afford him.

 

I'd also agree with what was stated earlier in the thread, that he'll probably leave because of years, not AAV of the contract. If Doug does make an offer, I'm sure it'll be pretty substantial, like the Cordero contract, just for 3-4 instead of 5-6 (also like Lee).

[rluzinski]

I'm not sure if Sheets missing so much time the last few years is a good or bad thing. While it makes you more worried about his future health, he also hasn't logged a lot of hours on the arm. Either way, it's a huge risk to sign any 29 year old starting pitcher to a long term deal and if Sheets stays healthy, that's what he's going to get. Four years min, probably five. Unless he's willing to give an extreme home discount, it's time to move on.

[RyDogg66]

Ive said it before and I will say it again. The Brewers had a chance to resign Ben SHeets this winter, or last season, or more specifically, the day AFTER Chris Carpenter signed his deal. Carpenter signed something like a 5 year, 65 million dollar deal and I thought the Brewers should have offered the exact same thing to Sheets.

 

Of course, the catch is that SHeets had some annoying injuries at the time, (nothing concerning his arm or shoulder (unlike Carpenter's injury past)), but that is the risk a team like the Brewers might need to take to keep a guy like Benny. The brewers were in a perfect place to get Sheets for a HUGE discount if they wanted too, but they passed, presumably because they were worried that he would get another earache, or tear a freak tendon in his little finger, or some other freak injury that is not more likely to happen to Ben than to any other pitcher. It isnt/wasnt my money and I am no GM, but none of Ben's injuries scared me, just like none of Geoff Jenkins's injuries scared me in the early 2000sl, because Geoff suffered weird/freak injuries (dislocated ankle, broken thumb, seperated shoulder) and sure enough, Geoff has been plenty healthy since then.

 

Now that we have had our chance, and let it go by, Ben is as good as gone. 5-6 years a 16-20 million a year. Book it.

[Bernie Crewer]

I understand most people's sentiment that Big Ben in all likelyhood may not be back next year, but the one thing that gives me hope is that he is on the books this year at 11m...if he has a phenomanal year and we have to give him 63.5m over 4 years with an option for a fifth, it only means an increase of 5m or so per year, which should not kill us payroll-wise with the difference. I love Sheets, and I hope he's in a Brewer uniform for years to come if it's at all possible. If not, I really hope he goes to the AL so we don't have to face him http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[uwisfan]

I see zero possibility of unloading Sheets at the deadline this year. They get 2 high comp picks for him next year if he walks. If healthy, he will be a huge part of their playoff possibilities. If injured, nobody would trade for him. The Crew would need to be about 20 games back to consider that. If I were the Crew, I'd take the 5 year, $80M deal. His injuries weren't severe. Why give Soup such a considerable contract if they were going to be too strapped to not afford to keep their ace?

 

Why would LaPorta be expendable? Weeks and Fielder start to get more expensive..we still have 5+ years of LaPorta for cheap. Re-signing a heavy Fielder is every bit as risky as signing a 29-year old Sheets, and then you have deal with Boras, and you are blocking some talented hitters.

[endaround]

Because LaPorta's clock is ticking. If he can't handle the OF, he really has no place in Milwaukee in the next two years.

[steve267268]

If i am in the front office, I offer him a fairly decent contract right now.

 

Even a so-so Sheets is better than a great Suppan, and having him in the rotation makes a huge difference. Once Gallardo gets back our rotation could be set for 3 years (including this one).

 

Sheets

Gallardo

Suppan

Villanueva

Parra

 

Replace Suppan when his contract is up, i'm sure we will have a pretty nice prospect waiting for a spot by then.

[DrWood]

I see zero possibility of unloading Sheets at the deadline this year. They get 2 high comp picks for him next year if he walks. If healthy, he will be a huge part of their playoff possibilities. If injured, nobody would trade for him.

 

2 high picks for a setup reliever (linnebrink) is a pretty good deal. 2 high picks for an ace isn't going to replace him. either signing him to an extension or trading him before the deadline would be the best choice. You can't trade him if you are in a playoff race.

[brewjihad]

Because LaPorta's clock is ticking. If he can't handle the OF, he really has no place in Milwaukee in the next two years.

 

I think next year's opening day outfield will feature LaPorta, Hart, and Braun. Where each of them are is to be determined, LaPorta is playing in right at AA for now. That would allow them to drop Cameron.

[uwisfan]

when does LaPorta need to be called up by? I was thinking he would replace Fielder. I would think Fielder could net some considerable pitching prospects. If not, I could see him in right and moving Hart to CF for a year or maybe two if need be, but it's not ideal.

[brewjihad]

There are all kinds of possible combinations, left to right:

 

LaPorta, Braun, Hart

 

Braun, Hart, LaPorta

 

LaPorta, Hart, Braun

 

or... resign Cameron and have a LaBrart mega-platoon on the corners http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif.

[mothershipconnection]

With a little research I am sure that he could make it work out so that he picks the only 8 teams that would be willing to either take on or afford his contract.

 

I don't think he'd take that approach, as he'd be preventing a trade to a big budget contender where he can win and sign an extension while leaving himself open to having a lame duck contract with a crap team.