Marquette basketball coaching search

[don1481]

I've met and dealt with Crean, and I've gotten the chance to talk to Buzz. I can say that Buzz is the anti-Crean. He's just as hard of a worker (if not moreso), but is very respectful and genuine with people. I can guarantee you no one wiill withold donations once they've met and talked with him, especially the donors that matter.

 

Give him a chance, sure it's not a sexy hire, but neither was Crean.

I've met and dealt with Crean as well and we're talking the overtanned, smug, almost used car salesman-esque, post 2003 Crean, right...? Crean when I first started at MU back in '99 was a young, hungry, approachable coach who you WANTED to succeed, especially in light of Mike Deane.

Crean didn't have to be a sexy hire, especially given the way Deane trashed the program. Now, however, it's different. The program's returned to a decent level of success and has a lot of things going for it. With the building of the Al, for example, it's like giving a 16 year old who just got his license the keys to a nice sports car. I'm not at all saying Buzz Williams is a bad person. On the contrary - I was thrilled when Crean got him on his staff for precisely the reasons why you say you like him as a person. I AM, however, saying that this move smacks of desperation by MU, especially given the timeframe for his hiring.

[Oldcity]

I almost think desperation would be continuing to hold out for some big name coach that isn't appearing. I imagine it became apparent after a few days that no "names" were going to come to Marquette. Although I do admit the six-year deal is strange and unnecessary.

 

Michael Hunt chiming in:

"Tony Bennett didn't take one step closer to his home state. That was the hire most people wanted to see, but what it said was Marquette is not a better job than Washington State."

Or... Maybe it means that Bennett didn't think the Big East was right for him. Or maybe he just didn't want to move his family (is the Indiana job also not better than the Wazzu job?) Or maybe he prefers to wait for another job. Or maybe a myriad of other things.

[Fatter than Joey]

Or maybe he prefers to wait for another job.

 

I think that is the case. IU is a mess, and as long as Bennett keeps the Cougars in the top part of the Pac10 it's not as if his stock will drop any.

[aracko]

I think Tony Bennett is waiting until Mr Bo Ryan retires - which might not be too far off. At that point he will take the Badgers job. As I said all along - for whatever reason Badgers / Marquette alum seem to really dispise the other.

[homer]

Bennett is a UWGB alum.

[Mr QL]

Can Buzz Williams even keep the recruits from leaving? Nick Williams and Tyshawn Taylor wanted out. I don't know about Chris Otule, Erik Williams, and Joseph Fulce. He should be able to keep them, since Buzz and them are all from Texas, I hope. Mbakwe might transfer too. James and McNeal will leave if they can get drafted. Don't look good.

 

I hope Buzz does well but lets just say I'm not optimistic.

[Roscoe Chill]

we're talking the overtanned, smug, almost used car salesman-esque, post 2003 Crean, right...?

 

Just out of curiosity, why haven't you made your feelings known about Crean for the last four or five years before he left for Indiana? Not saying you're wrong, jut find it interesting that he was a great coach until he decided to leave Marquette.

 

And why the 18 year old primadona talk? Have you met these kids? Just because Marquette wanted to promote a guy from within to possibly get these recruits to still come to Marquette makes the kids the bad guys? I guess I don't get it.

[endaround]

Marquette being good likely hurt their chances. Marquette isn't a name that can bring talent by itself and so there is a decent shot of not doing as well in the next 3 years. You take a WSU program and get them to postseason play, you're a genius. You take Marquette to the tournament, you're expected to. That however does not mean that Williams was a good choice.

[olliegjw]

On the radio, the press conference sounds like a eulogy. So gloomy, and no excitement.

[patrickgpe]

all right i can't help but like this guy already.

[danzig6767]

FWIW, i read a piece listing the top 25 recruiters in the nation and Williams was listed as one of them. Time will tell if that carries over here and if he can coach, but what Williams was apart of doing in turning around Texas A&M is pretty impressive.

[bork]

I'm not too excited, but I'll give him a chance. Maybe he can actually recruit a big man and win a few NCAA games.

[don1481]

Just out of curiosity, why haven't you made your feelings known about Crean for the last four or five years before he left for Indiana? Not saying you're wrong, jut find it interesting that he was a great coach until he decided to leave Marquette.

I don't think I've gone on the record as saying Crean was a "great" coach. I've implied very strongly on several occasions this season that he was afraid of standing up to Dominic James and benching him, for example. I criticized his "get the ball to McNeal" strategy on the last play of regulation against Stanford. I think I've made it very clear where I stand on Crean - he's a decent coach and a good recruiter. Not a great coach or a great recruiter.

 

[danzig6767]

Hey don

 

Billy Gillispie and did an amazing job at Texas A&M by taking over a team that was flat out horrid and didn't win a conference game, the first season there the team improved to 8-8 in conference play. They also had a couple of very highly ranked recruiting classes which is very impressive given the state of the program when he took over.

 

Gillispie has given a lot of the credit for those recruiting classes to Buzz Williams, but sometimes it's hard to know the exact truth in the cases when any recruit signs with a school. Was the assistant more just the guy who got the players attention and then the head coach was more important in closing the deal or was it mainly the work of the assistant coach in getting the recruit to the program?

 

Have you had any chance to find out if Williams was really the main driving force like it's been implied from what i've read in those very impressive recruiting classes that Texas A&M was able to reel in even though that program was a mess right before Gillispie and Buzz arrived?

 

I ask because obviously being a good X/O's coach is important, but no coach can win if he can't recruit and if Williams is the great recruiter that i've read about, it gives me some hope that this hire won't be the disaster that many are assuming he'll be.

[Roscoe Chill]

I don't think I've gone on the record as saying Crean was a "great" coach.

 

Great, good, beloved...whatever. My point is that no Marquette fans had anything real bad to say about him until after he left for Indiana, and then he gets slammed. It's funny. I never liked Crean much to begin with, and was never too impressed with his coaching. But I'm not really a Marquette fan.

[patrickgpe]

i think that is only natural. look at the posters who bashed the cubs for getting kendall and now that he is on our team he is our guy. A coaches negatives are easier to see after he has left.

[Roscoe Chill]

I understand it to a point. But just from the discussions on this site regarding Marquette/UW basketball, it seemed to me that Marquette fans were ecstatic with the state of their program and/or Tom Crean. Bashing him for the way he left is understandable. It just looks to me like Marquette fans are now bashing him and criticizing the same things they were defending him on just a few short months ago on any subject regarding the program.

 

If Bo Ryan left for say Kansas (yes I know it won't happen), you wouldn't see the venomous outpouring from Badger fans as I've read from Marquette fans.

[don1481]

I understand it to a point. But just from the discussions on this site regarding Marquette/UW basketball, it seemed to me that Marquette fans were ecstatic with the state of their program and/or Tom Crean. Bashing him for the way he left is understandable. It just looks to me like Marquette fans are now bashing him and criticizing the same things they were defending him on just a few short months ago on any subject regarding the program.

There's a difference with being ecstatic over the fact that the program isn't in the dumps like it was back in '99 - believe me, after going through those first two years of Crean where he was stuck building it up from the bare cupboards, I'm thankful for how the program has improved - and being ecstatic with Tom Crean. I've always had a concern about Crean's inability to recruit semi-competent bigs to compliment his constant stream of wing/outside players and others have echoed my criticisms of Crean's inability to manage in close games where they have to come from behind.

 

If Bo Ryan left for say Kansas (yes I know it won't happen), you wouldn't see the venomous outpouring from Badger fans as I've read from Marquette fans.

1. You wouldn't see Bo Ryan leave in the manner Crean did. At least... I'd hope he wouldn't. I'm sure if he did, though, Badger fans would be even angrier since Bo's never once given that "I'm getting other offers" vibe that Crean has for what, the past 4-5 years.

2. If Badger fans didn't all but burn him in effigy if he left in that fashion, then I would really question the passion of the fan base. But again, I'm sure they would all but riot.

 

look at the posters who bashed the cubs for getting kendall and now that he is on our team he is our guy

I'll be honest - I'm surprised Kendall's doing everything to the level he is thus far. So far I've been (wait for it) wrong about him. I'd like to be (wait for it) wrong about Buzz Lightyear but for some strange reason I don't think that's going to be the case.

[TooLiveBrew]

If Badger fans didn't all but burn him in effigy if he left in that fashion, then I would really question the passion of the fan base. But again, I'm sure they would all but riot.

 

Sorry don, but that's ridiculous imo. Especially that you would question the "passion" of a fan base for understanding the realities of the NCAA basketball coaching profession.

[don1481]

Sorry don, but that's ridiculous imo. Especially that you would question the "passion" of a fan base for understanding the realities of the NCAA basketball coaching profession.

I'm saying that there's a difference between what Crean did and what most coaches do when they're about to go to a different job. I mean... IU didn't so much as even ask MU for permission! If Bo Ryan left for another program but it was heavily rumored that he was in the running and that other program, you know, asked for permission to talk to him... that's one thing. I don't think the students would be livid. Disappointed, you bet. But not livid.

I'm sure they would, however, be livid if Ryan left under the same scenario that Crean did. It's not that Crean left that has people up in arms, it's how he did it. We understood the realities of the NCAA basetball coaching profession and figured that Crean was bound to leave sooner or later. Just because we went to MU doesn't make us stupid, you knowhttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[TooLiveBrew]

No, not "stupid", just "stupider"! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

I mean... IU didn't so much as even ask MU for permission!

 

But that isn't too uncommon in NCAA D1 hoops hires, is it? I understand and relate to your beef, but it just seems to be more 'sour grapes' than a legitimate sense of improper conduct. Don't take this as an insult, but when the choice comes down to MU or IU, that just isn't too close imo. I think Crean may rightly be called a douche, but IU didn't do anything wrong, and Crean certainly took a step up the coaching ladder imo.

 

Of course, as a Marquette fan, I'd be hoping to see Crean bomb out at IU, and then be relegated to a job like The Citadel, or something. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[homer]

I happen to agree with Don....kind of. It's sort of an apples oranges situation but if Bo left for more money at say, Villanova, I bet there'd be a bunch of PO'd buckys. And I'm a Badger fan through and through.

[don1481]

But that isn't too uncommon in NCAA D1 hoops hires, is it? I understand and relate to your beef, but it just seems to be more 'sour grapes' than a legitimate sense of improper conduct. Don't take this as an insult, but when the choice comes down to MU or IU, that just isn't too close imo... IU didn't do anything wrong, and Crean certainly took a step up the coaching ladder imo.

No, but given all the pending sanctions against IU, the last thing they need to do is not play by the rules and at least ASK. The rules dictate they do so, and I wouldn't be surprised if this does get added to IU's growing list of infractions.

 

I would agree that, before the infractions and after the sanctions finish running their course, IU is a better choice. I'm still surprised that Crean didn't take the IU job two years ago before IU got Sampsoned.

 

IU 2 years ago > IU now. I guess we'll see what Crean's able to do with a reduced set of available scholarships.

[TooLiveBrew]

No, but given all the pending sanctions against IU, the last thing they need to do is not play by the rules and at least ASK. The rules dictate they do so, and I wouldn't be surprised if this does get added to IU's growing list of infractions

 

Ok, I didn't realize that programs simply accepted sanctioning in not asking permission to hire guys. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Fwiw, imo, the MU - IU comp. is nowhere near the UW - Nova comp... though I realize now I'm just debating semantics.

[Roscoe Chill]

I really don't think there's a rule that says that one college must ask permission from another college. Proper ettiquette? Sure. But I think you're reaching if you think that they'll lose a scholarship over it.

 

And Crean leaving for Indiana and Ryan leaving for Villanova isn't really comparable, because Villanova isn't one of the top college basketball jobs (tradition wise) in the country. And I know you probably used Villanova as an example because of Ryan's Pennsylvania ties. But that's why I used Kansas as an example.

 

Would Badger fans be pissed? Sure. But you wouldn't hear people talking about how Ryan was a dirtbag for the last three years and totally did an about face from when he first got to Wisconsin.