Tony Gwynn is the next Bill Hall....not good

[Time for a Miller]

I have never really liked Bill Hall. I think his approach at the plate is bad and his good year(2006) was above where he really projects. However, he did give us some memorable (see pink-bat) hits early in his career. I do not think he is an above average major league player. I think TGJ is heading down this path now. There seems to be a lot of love for him to be a regular starter in centerfield. I hope "the mustache" realizes he is not the center fielder of the future before he buys out his arby years like he did with Hall.

[BrewCrewForever]

I like Gwynn quite a bit. But I don't think he is a everyday CF. I like him as a 4th OF on just about any team though. Once Cameron comes back he is our CF. And I still think Hall is an above average ball player.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

I do not think he is an above average major league player.

So when Hall has an average year in 2007 and 2 way above average years in 2006 and 2005, you think he's not above average overall because of one year? Hmmmm.

[piccione88]

Tony Gwynn, and Bill Hall are not even in the same league. Bill Hall has the ability to hit 20+ homeruns in a season, and is a doubles machine. Tony Gwynn will be lucky if he can ever slug 100 points higher than his batting average.

 

Tony Gwynn is a 4th outfielder at best. Even if Bill Hall only puts up his career average line this year which is, .264/.320/.467, that is better than Gwynn will ever do.

[brewcrewfan08]

Yeah but you also have to look at Tony Gwynns defense compared to Bill Halls, not much of a matchup there.

[giffted1]

I'd be thrilled if Tony was the next Bill Hall.

[drezdn]

Can Tony Gwynn Jr. Pitch?

[brewcrew00]

Tony Gwynn, and Bill Hall are not even in the same league. Bill Hall has the ability to hit 20+ homeruns in a season, and is a doubles machine. Tony Gwynn will be lucky if he can ever slug 100 points higher than his batting average.

 

Tony Gwynn is a 4th outfielder at best. Even if Bill Hall only puts up his career average line this year which is, .264/.320/.467, that is better than Gwynn will ever do.

In fairness, slugging and BA are just two things. Tony's speed and defense should be enough to land him a starting job somewhere, as he also has a really good head about the game.

 

[sheethead]

I sense a merge coming on.

[rluzinski]

I think his approach at the plate is bad and his good year(2006) was above where he really projects.

 

If you want to say that both players were/are over hyped, fine. Both players have had some memorable hits, which But to compare their ML achievements in any way is way off base. Hall didn't just have one good year; he had a good year in 2005 as well:

 

.291/.342/.495/.837

 

Hall had 1038 good AB over those two years. Also, his 2007 season wasn't good but it wasn't THAT bad (.254/315/.425/.740).

 

Hall's ZiPS projection puts him at .270/.336/.475/.806 for this season. That seems like a pretty reasonable projection to me and it would make him about an average hitting 3B. If he can also play decent defense, he's going to be a asset to the team this year as a starter.

[GAME05]

i'm very happy we have Hall around for three more years. he's a productive player, maybe not a superstar or anything, but there's also absolutely nobody knocking on the door to take his position. Gamel's the closest, but he's three years away and will probably never play 3rd at the ML level. for the numbers Hall puts up and what we're paying him, Doug Melvin is coming out way ahead.

 

i'm a fan of Gwynn, too. i don't really know if he'll develop into a full-time CF or not, but the nice thing about this season is Gwynn will have the chance to either prove he belongs as the starter (and take over in 09) or that he really is just a bench player. i'll just never give the guy a 100% yes or no quite yet until later on in the season, since this year he's going to get a legitimate chance to prove himself.

[logan82]

Without an injury or suspension, I doubt TGJ ever becomes an everyday starter for us. If Cameron plays well for us it would probably be best to pick up his option. If he doesn't then Laporta gets fast tracked. I hope Cameron has his option picked up because I hate rushing prospects like we have been.

[endaround]

LaPorta really won't be rushed though. He's an old college player. He's already 23. He really only has this season and possibly next before his prospect status goes away.

[uwisfan]

I've been believing Gwynn's minor league stats like most on here, that he won't be any good, but this team does need OBP guys with speed to drive in, and if he somehow improves beyond his projections (and some believe his pedigree could make that happen), with his defense, he could turn into our future CF. Now I didn't believe he had that capability, but he has shown a lot during spring training and last night. I'm officially on the fence I guess.

 

Certainly the Brewers could get someone with better power numbers out there, but this lineup doesn't like power by any stretch, and they can invest in more pitching instead. I think LaPorta will likely replace Fielder and we will rotate LaPorta as the 4th OF and backup 1B next year.

[JohnBriggs12]

What another dump on Tony Gwynn thread? Aren't there about a dozen of those around? Can't he just be appreciated for what he is? A good defensive outfielder, who can run a bit, and who should hit for decent average with little power. I like him but I've never said he's the next Kenny Lofton, or that he's going to hit like his dad. I've said all along he can be a serviceable major league outfielder. He might be a starter for some teams or a very useful backup.

 

He was a 2nd round pick. Those guys are usually held in pretty high regard if they show anything. He hasn't been a bust nor has he cost the Brewers anything in the standings. His minor league stats are not terrible. He actually did better in the higher levels. That's usually a good sign. Can we just let the kid play until he's had enough AB's to make a reasonable judgement?

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't know if LaPorta is the player to replace Gwynn if Gwynn isn't a viable starting option. Gwynn is a legitimate centerfielder and LaPorta certainly isn't. We could move Hart or Braun to center but I'm not sure either Braun or Hart would be anything more than average in center.

[Fatter than Joey]

I've been believing Gwynn's minor league stats like most on here, that he won't be any good

 

No one thinks he won't be any good necessarily -- most people here think he is a decent 4th/5th OF, who probably should make spot starts at the most.

 

but this team does need OBP guys with speed to drive in,

 

TGJ is really not an OBP guy -- In order to be an OBP guy you have to be able to complement your BA with BBs -- much like Weeks. Also, with all the mashers we have in our lineup, I don't think you need a lot of speed, if you are going to be trotting around the bases after Prince/Braun/Hart go yard.

 

he has shown a lot during spring training and last night.

 

I think he had a couple of cheap hits, a decent sac fly, he made a couple of nice yet routine catches in the OF, and was caught paying way to shallow on Fukudome. It showed me what I always thought -- TGJ is a solid 4th/5th OFer and I am glad to have him on my team in that capacity. I would think it would suck to have him starting 120 games though.

 

The first team that wants him to play fulltime CF, I trade him to.

 

My biggest gripe though regarding TGJ is when he is batting #2 -- but that's on Yost -- I think we could have had a much bigger (potentially) inning if TGJ isn't forced to bunt and the bat isn't taken out Prince's hands. It worked out well enough -- but I don't like giving up an out and not getting Prince his hacks.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think we could have had a much bigger (potentially) inning if TGJ isn't forced to bunt and the bat isn't taken out Prince's hands. It worked out well enough -- but I don't like giving up an out and not getting Prince his hacks.

 

Give this some time. If Braun does what he did yesterday on a regular enough basis Fielder will get his chances to hit. Even Bonds would have had more chances to hit if he had Pujols hitting behind him. These two guys have a chance to be that type of one two punch.

[rluzinski]

Can we just let the kid play until he's had enough AB's to make a reasonable judgement?

 

Unfortunately, he's not going to get the opportunity to get enough AB to prove much of anything this year. He'll probably get something like 16 starts before Cameron gets back, which works out to around 75 PA. After that, he'll be a backup who gets the occasional start in CF. I'll be surprised if he gets even 250 AB this year.

 

Getting back on topic, when a mediocre player gets overhyped because of a couple memoriable hits, it's only a matter of time before he also has his share of failures. Fans are fickle and will change their opinion on a dime.

[Fatter than Joey]

If Braun does what he did yesterday on a regular enough basis Fielder will get his chances to hit.

 

Not when TGJ has to bunt -- Teams are always going to BB Prince with 1b open.

 

1.) Weeks gets on (0 outs)

2.) TGJ bunts (Weeks to 2nd, 1 out)

3.) Prince gets IBB (1&2 1out)

4.) Braun and Hart get ABs

 

Now if Hart/Hardy/Hall is in the 2hole instead of Gwynn. Not only could you get a extra base hit -- but you may get into the other team's BP as they will have to pitch to both Fielder and Braun. TGJ almost HAS to bunt in that situation, because in all likelihood that is what he going to effectively do if he swings away. Basically Yost forced himself to put all of his eggs in the Braun basket -- which worked out well yesterday.

[DrWood]

Hall is a slightly above average starter, offensively. His versatility in the field makes him a very nice guy to have around. He's not a gold-glover, but he's pretty solid whenever he's gotten steady playing time at SS, 3B or 2B, and was pretty good in CF during the second half of the season.

[endaround]

If Braun does what he did yesterday on a regular enough basis Fielder will get his chances to hit.

 

Not when TGJ has to bunt -- Teams are always going to BB Prince with 1b open.

 

1.) Weeks gets on (0 outs)

2.) TGJ bunts (Weeks to 2nd, 1 out)

3.) Prince gets IBB (1&2 1out)

4.) Braun and Hart get ABs

 

Now if Hart/Hardy/Hall is in the 2hole instead of Gwynn. Not only could you get a extra base hit -- but you may get into the other team's BP as they will have to pitch to both Fielder and Braun. TGJ almost HAS to bunt in that situation, because in all likelihood that is what he going to effectively do if he swings away. Basically Yost forced himself to put all of his eggs in the Braun basket -- which worked out well yesterday.

You forgot that before Hart gets to hit, Hall has to. Though is Hart's hand now hot enough that he bats 5th?

 

[Fatter than Joey]

You're right --

 

My only point is that when Yost does things that effectively remove the bat from Prince's hands -- that probably isn't a good thing -- with Gwynn batting in front of him, that will happen a lot late in games.

[southpaw121505]

I am a fan of Gwynn. But, I agree about him batting 2nd. That is a prime spot for a hitter in front of Prince and Braun I'd rather have a guy there that can take advantage of pitchers coming after him. I'd like Hart there more than him 6th. Give him more ABs. Bump Hardy to 6th and Gwynn 7th

[olliegjw]

I have a feeling on most days, Weeks would have stolen 2nd, and Gwynn would be swinging away. However, with the wet infield, a stolen base wasn't feasible at the time. For the most part, I don't have a big problem with Gwynn batting 2nd against righties. Hardy should bat 2nd versus lefties, though.