We almost traded for Dave Roberts...YUCK!!!

[Madtown Bomber]

A buddy of mine said he heard that the Brewers last week almost traded Joe Dillon, Claudio Vargas, and Eric Munson to San Fransisco for Dave Roberts and 2 minor leaguers. Obviously it didn't happen since Vargas was released.

 

Good thing it didn't happen, that contract is REDICULOUS. Can't believe we were almost saddled with that, but interesting we looking to CF for the time Cameron is out.

[mothershipconnection]

Considering we would have saved $900K on Vargas and $525K on Munson ($1.45M), Roberts would've cost $5.05M, which is still too much for a backup, but isn't as bad as his real salary. 2009 is a different story, though, as he'd be the full $6.5M at age 37. Unless SF were willing to pick up at about $4M+ over two years, I wouldn't be into this idea at all. That is, of course, assuming the minor leaguers weren't quality players, in which case taking on the salary wouldn't be as bad.

[piccione88]

If that is true, there is no way the brewers would have had to pay the whole thing. If it did go down the giants probably would have to take on at least half of the contracts, so Roberts would make 3.25 in 08, and 09. Pecota projects him to have a line of .278/.345/.382, while Gwynn is projected at a line of .251/.321/.344. Projection's are not gospel, but even looking at what these two have done in the past I think it is a safe bet to assume that Roberts is somewhat of an upgrade in the fifth outfield spot over Gwynn, or Kapler.

 

When you take Dillon out of the lineup it makes us worse offensively, but if the right prospects were thrown in, it might not have been that bad of an idea to take on half of Robert's bad contract for the next couple of years, and lose Dillon's bat.

 

Melvin found Villanueva in the Giants system so maybe he could have done it again.

[brettac1]

The F.O.'s interest in Dave Roberts is unsettling at times. There aren't a whole lot guys that I'd pick Gwynn over, but Roberts is one of them, for sure.

[molitor fan]

Just wondering madtown, is the purveyor of this trade information the same guy that gave you this?

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/viewtopic.php?t=9377

[piccione88]

The F.O.'s interest in Dave Roberts is unsettling at times. There aren't a whole lot guys that I'd pick Gwynn over, but Roberts is one of them, for sure.

I dont see how you could want Gwynn over Roberts. At his best Gwynn will give you a line of .280/.350/.340, and even that might be a stretch. Roberts who had his worst year in recent memory, and should be able to improve on that by a little bit sill posted an OPS of 695 which is the best you can expect from Gwynn.

 

When you take into account their contracts Gwynn is clearly the better deal, but all things equal I would take Roberts over Gwynn in a heart beat for 2008. If this trade was really actually going to happen, if the right prospects were coming back, I would not mind at all.

[Madtown Bomber]

Just wondering madtown, is the purveyor of this trade information the same guy that gave you this?

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/viewtopic.php?t=9377

 

haha, well believe it or not that guy who came up with that trade rumor is actually in baseball where the guy who gave me this one claims he heard it on the radio.

 

Go figure...

[dadofandrew]

I would guess Roberts or Randy Winn might well be picked up by the Crew in late July.

[brewjihad]

I would guess Roberts or Randy Winn might well be picked up by the Crew in late July.

 

As a backup? I think they're plenty happy with Gross, Gwynn and maybe Kapler when they have three starting, non-platoon outfielders. I could see Roberts coming here if an injury occurred, but if things go according to plan, I think the Brewers would be looking for a pitcher more than a backup outfielder.

[Team Canada]

I have no idea why you would make that trade for 25 games.

[Brian the Automator]

The key is the other "2 minor leaguers". Their quality probably would depend on how much of Roberts's salary they would have picked up. But honestly, I don't think trading someone they were about to release, a waiver-wire pickup, and a minor league free agent for a quality backup would have been a bad trade.

[jackalope02ca]

That would have been a steal for us if the Giants picked up most of Roberts contract. Not sure how you could possibly criticize this deal from a Brewers standpoint. What exactly were we giving up? We would have gotten 2 minor leaguers to boot and Roberts can still run. He could win games off the bench as a pinch runner. The key would have been how much of the contract San Fran were picking up.

[PeaveyFury]

If the Giants picked up a huge chunk of Roberts' salary, I'd probably prefer him to Gwynn for the first 25 games.

[Invader3K]

Yeah, I agree with Peavey. That would be the only way I would have really cared to see it happen. I can live with Gwynn for 25 games or so, though.

[GAME05]

i don't know why we'd want to lock ourselves into a CF for 09 anyway, let alone for Roberts. we're in the perfect position as it is--Cameron could come back, Gwynn could fill the spot or Hart could shift over for LaPorta.

 

so then when you'd think that Roberts might only be marginally better than Gwynn, it makes even less sense.

[Tbadder]

The key is the other "2 minor leaguers". Their quality probably would depend on how much of Roberts's salary they would have picked up. But honestly, I don't think trading someone they were about to release, a waiver-wire pickup, and a minor league free agent for a quality backup would have been a bad trade.

I'd say. I'd take Roberts and his salary and throw in a few million if the minor leaguers were legit major league starters down the road. Of course that would never happen--dang.

[Gopher74]

The key is the other "2 minor leaguers". Their quality probably would depend on how much of Roberts's salary they would have picked up. But honestly, I don't think trading someone they were about to release, a waiver-wire pickup, and a minor league free agent for a quality backup would have been a bad trade.

Yea, when you consider that two of the players aren't contributing right now, sure, but I'll take Joe Dillon over Dave Roberts at this point for what we need. We've got Gwynn who I think can do almost the exact same thing that Roberts can do, and I really like Dillon's bat off the bench.

 

I understand that he's a minor league free agent, and he's not going to get you much in terms of value, but he's a pretty solid guy to have on the bench. I mean, you could say that the Mets traded away Gomez++ for a rule five pickup, but obviously Santana has evolved beyond that label.

 

So...I guess what I'm saying is Joe Dillon=Johan Santana. OR that he's got more value than a typical minor league FA.

 

[Big Reed]

I just thought of an important issue. I realize brewers fans always look at salary first before looking at a player's potential contributions. it's as if brewerfans are all accountants and it's our money Mr A is going to spend. I say if he wants to blow his money and acquire another veteran outfielder at a huge price, let him do it. it's his money to use or to waste. For all I care, he could trade for juan Pierre. I'm sure the Dodgers would give him to us real cheap talent wise. They'd probably trade him for Dillon or Gross or McClung if we agreed to take on his salary.

 

Ok, now that I'm off my soapbox about fans being overly concerned about players' salaries, if this rumor actually did have some truth to it, it tells me one thing whic h is a very good thing. that is the brewers have a little more cash in the kitty that they could spend down the stretch if they needed to. A lot of us have felt the brewers' payroll is already maxed out and the brewers can't really afford to add any more veterans down the stretch. but if the brewers were thinking of adding Roberts, I think it's possibe they may have more financial flexibilty than we may be led to believe. and this is a very good thing.

 

then again, this rumor may have been before the brewers signed Cameron. This entire trade idea makes sense if it was before the brewers signed Cameron. and a lot of times, rumors such as this surface about 3 months after the fact of when they were first made.

[Brian the Automator]

I just thought of an important issue. I realize brewers fans always look at salary first before looking at a player's potential contributions. it's as if brewerfans are all accountants and it's our money Mr A is going to spend. I say if he wants to blow his money and acquire another veteran outfielder at a huge price, let him do it. it's his money to use or to waste. For all I care, he could trade for juan Pierre. I'm sure the Dodgers would give him to us real cheap talent wise. They'd probably trade him for Dillon or Gross or McClung if we agreed to take on his salary.

I guess I never understand the argument about it "not being our money". Of course it's not, but realistically, there's only a certain budget, and if he spends it foolishly, it's bad news. Right?

[Big Reed]

I look at spending money differently.

 

as they say in the movie Robots- See a need - fill a need. if the money is spent to fill a need, then it is not spent foolishly. rather than looking at how much money the brewers would have to pay to obtain Roberts, the more important question would be, does he fill a need? does he improve our team? if the answer is yes, then you worry about the money later. Take out a loan like the Dbacks did and won a championship as part of it. have the dbacks paid back that loan yet? I doubt it. if the brewers percieved starting pitching as a need I would rather they went after the best starting pitcher to fill that need than to go after the one who will only cost them $500 k a year.

 

if a guy like pierre fills a need, then I would say while his contract is rather high, it was money well spent. I would argue the money spent on Suppan was money well spent. The question becomes, what is the brewers' most glaring current need? That's where you need to spend your money. money is only wasted if it is spent on something that is never or seldom used. Spending $10 million on a pinch hitter is a waste. if the brewers perceived their need as wanting a lead-off hitter who could steal a lot of bases, then acquiring roberts, or Pierre or brian Roberts would fill that need. If the brewers perceive that they are only looking for a 4th outfielder then players such as pierre or roberts would not fill that need. a better player to fill that type of need would be lofton or a second year player - such as gwynn. lofton would be a great 4th outfielder as would gwynn.

 

Acquiring Gagne filled a need. Acquiring Riske and Torres also filled a need. I have no problems what amount of money was spent to acquire those three players. They filled a need. Kendall filled a need. I would have paid him more if necessary.

 

if on the other hand, I was the reds GM, and had guys like Bruce and Votto waiting for their chance to shine, I would not go out and acquire guys like patterson or keep hatteburg because they fill no need. Spending money to acquire patterson even at the minimum is a waste because he fills no need and is blocking the path of Bruce.

 

it's one thing to spend money and another to spend it wisely. I have confidence melvin can spend money wisely. So if he is interested in acquiring a guy like roberts or rolen, I'm confident he has already looked at the brewers' financial books before engaging in the discussion. if Melvin is pursueing a guy like roberts, I have to believe he's already looked at the salary requirements and he's ok with them. They are a non-issue. Or, they are a part of the trade negotiations.

 

a question I would ask is if mr A was a very foolish owner and spent his money foolishly for three years like the orioles owner, would brewer fans be less of a fan? would we hate Mr A for foolishly spending his money? Would we hate him if had a payroll over $100 million? Do people hate Bud for foolishly spending his money on players like larry Hisle, Ben McDonald, Teddy Higuera and hammonds? The brewers almost acquired Tejada over the Winter. Rather than saying he's paid too much money, a better question would have been does acquiring tejada fill a need? would he improve our team? needs and improving the team should take priority over cost and salary.

 

I don't think the brewers really need roberts. Roberts at $1 million would be a waste. The brewers really need an Oswalt.

[davego]

If one of the minor league guys was Joe Nathen or Franciso Liriano...that would help.

[ILuvDaBush]

Honestly, I'd even take a Boof Bonser.

[aracko]

We already have Dave Roberts in Tony Gwynn.

[Baldkin]

I am just still so happy they didn't sign him last off season.

[tigerbrew]

I am just still so happy they didn't sign him last off season.

Me too. I don't get DM's infatuation with Roberts, he's not worth that contract. And now I think Roberts is not even worth a roster spot with the Brewers.