Faith healing goes wrong for girl in Weston, WI

[RU Rah Rah]

As some of you might know, I've written a book on faith healing, children, and the law. This past week, my phone has been ringing off the hook from people seeking comment on the death of Madeline Neumann, a girl from Weston, WI, who died from diabetes last Sunday after her parents treated her with prayer in lieu of standard medical treatment (insulin, basically). Here's an excerpt from one of the many stories on the death.

WESTON, Wis. (AP) - Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor. An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said. She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney.
The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.

[RyDogg66]

These people should be locked up. They never gave their daughter a chance. The other children are in grave danger, IMO.

[JimH5]

This is so sad for this child and her family.

[bigredrobbo]

If you have a belief in God, wouldn't you believe that God provided the medical knowledge to treat diseases with drugs?

 

There's a story of a man trapped on his roof by terrible floods who, thanks to his faith, believes God will save him. A helicopter arrives and the man sends it away, saying "I have faith God will save me". This happens twice more and the man eventually is swallowed by flood waters and drowns.

When he is standing at the pearly gates he cries out "Lord, why did you forsake me?", to which God replies, "who the heck did you think was sending all the helicopters?".......

 

That's like this, only more tragic.

 

I'll leave it at that - I'm really angry about all these sorts of cases and I'd violate several board rules saying what I really think...

[PlayerHader]

RU Rah Rah...what's the title? I probably saw you on Channel 7 news out of Wausau this week.

 

There can't be that many folks who've written books on the topic can there?

[RU Rah Rah]

RU Rah Rah...what's the title? I probably saw you on Channel 7 news out of Wausau this week.

 

There can't be that many folks who've written books on the topic can there?

The book is When Prayer Fails: Faith Healing, Children, and the Law (Oxford). Basically, it's the only book on this particular narrow little thing, so I'm the person they ask. (And I have to say that I felt slightly guilty about the attention this week. You want to get interviewed, etc., but not under these circumstances.)

 

[endaround]

I really can't believe they have not removed the other children at this point.

[gypcasino]

I wonder why did they finally end up going to the hospital?

[aracko]

Doesnt Prayer work in a hospital? I feel so horrible for that girl.

 

In this day and age it would not surprise me to find out that the real reason they didnt take her to the hospital was simply because they didnt have insurance and are trying to use Prayer as a coverup.

[gypcasino]

aracko wrote:

In this day and age it would not surprise me to find out that the real reason they didnt take her to the hospital was simply because they didnt have insurance and are trying to use Prayer as a coverup.

I doubt it. There are still plenty of people who eschew traditional medical care because of their religious beliefs. Look at the Christian Scientists.

[PeaveyFury]

I really can't believe they have not removed the other children at this point.

 

In a report on the radio, I heard that it was one of the other children that alerted the authorities from California, so if that's true, I'm guessing the other children are college aged or older.

[Brian the Automator]

Everyone's doing very well on the topic, but I'd just like to reiterate that the discussion of religion & politics is not allowed here, so please try and stay as objective as possible.

 

Thanks

[RyDogg66]

I think praying for your childs safety and health is wonderful. Example: "Please God, let the doctor's cure my son/daughter"

 

Also, I would think that the little girl suffered quite a bit over the past month and last few days. Terrible.

[dadofandrew]

I live within a mile or two of the girl. All my client contacts this week have expressed extreme sadness about the whole thing. i have been asked by a couple women "How could this happen"?

 

Life is an incredibly fragile thing, whether it be an 18 year-old getting shot in combat or this tragic event.

 

I have a hard time justifying the family's only comment to the media (as far as I know) was to tell an AP reporter that they were not "crazy religious people", as letting your child die when a hospital is within walking distance and I now find out they belong to some fringe group with Unleavened Bread in the title.

 

Astoundingly, most people seem to feel no charges will be brought. It's almost beyond belief.

[istanbultaye]

I certainly believe that with prayer, miracles can and will happen, but that doesn't mean I won't see or bring my hypothetical child to a doctor. Sad.

[brettac1]

Yeah, this has been making me furious all week. I almost started a thread on it a couple days ago, but thought better of it. I loved how they said "we did everything we knew to do". If they had heard of doctors (which they of course had, since the daughter had been there before, though not since she was three), then that's certainly a lie.

 

And to clarify what Peavey was saying, it was actually the husband's sister in CA who notified the police, not one of the other children.

[Invader3K]

That's a pretty excruciating way to die. Definitely not peaceful.

[RU Rah Rah]

What's complicated here is that the Wisconsin statute governing crimes against children has a specific provision that appears (and I stress the word appears) to shield from criminal liability parents who engage in "treatment through prayer." Similar apparent exemptions often derail prosecutions in other states. Some prosecutors try to get around it by bringing charges under manslaughter statutes, but this can raise a question, on appeal, of due process of law. (Defendants essentially say, "I did what I did because I thought it was legal under the religious healing exemption, and so it's unfair for you to prosecute me under another law that lacks such a provision. How was I supposed to know which law to follow?")

 

Let me be clear: I am not arguing that these are valid legal (or even moral) claims. I am just summarizing what has typically happened in the hundreds of other cases like this.

[PeaveyFury]

Thanks for the clarification, brettac.

 

Looks like the other children have been removed from the home:

 

http://www.channel3000.com/news/15735268/detail.html

[RU Rah Rah]

If I had my choice, I would be watching the Opening Day marathon on ESPN, but if you have the urge to surf . . . I will be talking about this stuff on the CNN "Nancy Grace" program on Monday, March 30, between 7:30 and 8 p.m.

[jason21nl]

If I had my choice, I would be watching the Opening Day marathon on ESPN, but if you have the urge to surf . . . I will be talking about this stuff on the CNN "Nancy Grace" program on Monday, March 30, between 7:30 and 8 p.m.

did you mean the 31st?

 

please people don't get this thread locked because the name Nancy Grace was mentioned

[RU Rah Rah]

Yeah, sorry -- March 31, tonight, Monday.

 

Will I get a BF.net Purple Heart if I survive this show? That's what I want to know.....

[jason21nl]

on right now

[hawing]

D'oh, I opened this thread just at 8:01 PM. How'd it go?

[RU Rah Rah]

It was ok, I think. She referenced this Oklahoma case and insisted that it was a U.S. Supreme Court case and thus the law of the land, applicable everywhere. It really wasn't (the Court refused to hear the case, basically), and everyone else on the show, me included, tried to tell her that she was wrong. But she didn't totally berate me, so I'm going to consider myself lucky!