6/23/07 Royals (Bannister) @ Brewers (Bush): 6:05 PM CDT

[Oldcity]

Anytime Bush allows a baserunner after the fifth inning, panic ensues at bf.net.

[bbrauch2000]

i think weeks is up to snuff where counsell can be hitting in the 8 hole

[adambr2]

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Because Bush gives up two singles in a row, that means he's falling apart and should be replaced? Come on, now. He was at 90 pitches and doing fine.

Another Baseball Blog

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I would think you meant for this to be in blue, since it seems like every time this year that Bush gives up 2 quick leadoff singles in the 6th and 7th, the floodgates open. It's not like we haven't seen something this year to go off of when he starts struggling in the 6th/7th.

 

I do see your point. I wasn't calling for him to be pulled, I was just saying to get that pen ready. Makes a heck of a lot more sense to make that move when it's 6-3 with a runner rather than when they've come all the way back to tie it.

[Oldcity]

Hart is just insane.

[hurricanecrush]

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I just tuned in... are these uniforms approximations of what the Brewers star players will look like one day for the Yankees?

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Approximations is a good word since the Yankees have retired 1, 7, 8, 15, 23 and 49.

[steve267268]

Hey that a boy DAVE! Get 'em on, get 'em over, and Corey will get 'em in! Nice!

 

Chicks dig the small ball.

[TheCrew07]

Thankfully Hart is putting the Gwynn debate to bed, though now it's not Gwynn vs Hart, it's Gwynn vs Gross.

[Oldcity]

How about Dave Bush? He's showing the only "six-inning" starter on the team is Claudio Vargas.

[rluzinski]

I would think you meant for this to be in blue, since it seems like every time this year that Bush gives up 2 quick leadoff singles in the 6th and 7th, the floodgates open.

 

Yes, it "seems like every time". I hope Yost looks at thinks a little closer than that. One of Bush's positives is that he's been able to work deep in games throughout his career. That's anot all erased becasue of maybe 3 (don't really know) bad 6th or 7th innings. Yost should pull Bush if it looks like he's fatiguing, not after giving up 2 singles. He's at 108 pitches right now, so I'd have no problem if Yost pulled him out of there.

[rluzinski]

Thankfully Hart is putting the Gwynn debate to bed, though now it's not Gwynn vs Hart, it's Gwynn vs Gross.

 

It was a Hart vs. Gwynn debate, when some suggested that Gywnn might have more value than Hart in RF. I'm sure those who said that would like to forget it was ever said.

[Bernman23]

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Thankfully Hart is putting the Gwynn debate to bed, though now it's not Gwynn vs Hart, it's Gwynn vs Gross.

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That was only the debate for this year, because they would have both been right field options. And Gwynn deserved to play when he was hot. Even his backers only asserted that, and they're still right. Once he cooled down, he lost his role, and rightfully so. Corey had quite a few more at bats than Gwynn Jr., so it should be expected that he's more major league ready. It doesn't change the fact that when Gwynn Jr. can gain more experience in the future, eventually at his peak he still could be an asset at the top of the order. It's not either Hart or Gwynn. It was self apparent that Hart would get his chance eventually. The question is what do the Brewers do with Jenkins for the future and long term. Also, do they keep Hall in center or move him to the corner. And if Gwynn Jr. can be one of your 8 most effective options for the lineup, do you move him to the top of the order because that's the position where power is least at a premium, and move Corey to the middle of the lineup. It puts no debate to bed beyond this year.

[TheCrew07]

I think you missed my point...

 

It was Gwynn vs Hart... now it's shifted to Gwynn vs Gross.

[Bernman23]

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It was a Hart vs. Gwynn debate, when some suggested that Gywnn might have more value than Hart in RF. I'm sure those who said that would like to forget it was ever said.

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I hope you're not talking about me Russell. All I said was that Gwynn Jr. deserved to play while he was performing at the time, he would be a future asset in centerfield, and his style of hitter is an asset as a leadoff man. Corey deserved to play once Gwynn's production waned.

[rluzinski]

And Gwynn deserved to play when he was hot.

 

And if every backup got to start when he had 36 great AB, you'd get similar results to what happened with Gwynn. That's not how you choose your starting lineup.

 

I hope you're not talking about me Russell.

 

I have no idea who said it. I assume it's in the Gwynn thread. Someone was comparing Gwynn's great 36 AB to Harts start.

[DougJones43]

I just don't see Gwynn having a place on this team as long as Hall is a Brewer. Moving Hall to a corner spot to make room for Gwynn in CF would, in effect, be choosing Gwynn over a corner outfielder. Any average corner outfielder should probably be able to offer more offensive production than Gwynn, even if Gwynn reaches his "ceiling" as a hitter.

[Bernman23]

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And if every backup got to start when he had 36 great AB, you'd get similar results to what happened with Gwynn. That's not how you choose your starting lineup.

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Whatever. Let's not sit here and act like Tony Gwynn Jr. is an established backup ala Gabe Gross. He's a prospect. You have to continue to play him beyond 36 at bats to see if he's for real or ready for the big leagues. The same is the case for ANY prospect. You may not consider him much of a prospect, but obviously other people differ. To say that everyone should see him like you do, and treat him like a veteran backup; is ludicrous.

[hurricanecrush]

When that Braun kid learns to play a little D, he might just make it in this league.

[brewcrewman17]

It's getting pretty hot in here... when's the last time we've had to lock an IGT?

[DougJones43]

You may not consider him much of a prospect, but obviously other people differ.

 

Why do you consider him a prospect? Rather than just throwing out ad hominem arguments, why don't you give reasons why he IS a prospect?

 

The anti-Gwynn crowd has repeatedly given reasons why they don't think he is a strong prospect, including: no power, unproven ability to consitently draw walks, lackluster SB% in spite of speed, and a pretty unimpressive history of minor league offensive numbers in general

 

If you don't agree with these assesments, debate them. Attempting to write off people who don't think highly of Gwynn as "haters" isn't really an argument, but still seems to be the argument of choice for many pro-Gwynn posters.

[tigerbrew]

Nice Win. Good job by Bush. Hart is still the best leadoff htter in the majors.

[TheCrew07]

BALLGAME!!!

 

Sorry I mentioned Gwynn, some people just aren't able to let go.

[Brian the Automator]

http://www.lbjsports.com/images/Hall_of_Fame/82%20Ricky%20Overton%20Lamar%201974%20touched%20Up%20W.jpg

[hawing]

Chicks dig the small ball.

 

They do indeed, especially when it extends a winning streak. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Bernman23]

Doug Jones, I already talked extensively about why I thought Gwynn Jr. was a prospect. If you want to know why, read here:

 

p092.ezboard.com/fbrewers...5225.topic

 

Nobody else expounded on their explanations to be anti Gwynn here, more than I expounded on my explanation to be pro Gwynn. Why the double standard?

[And That]

Another couple games, and Bush's ERA will be lower than Suppan's.