Claudio Vargas released

[TooLiveBrew]

Either way, we are a better team now than if we had kept Davis, Eveland and Krynzel. So it still worked out.

 

How can you claim this? Melvin got worked in that trade, sadly. Right now I'd much rather have DD's innings & Eveland at AAA than the mess that came after this trade. If Estrada hadn't turned out to be such a freakin' bum, I'd even be happy with the trade.

[samwise]

Either way, we are a better team now than if we had kept Davis, Eveland and Krynzel. So it still worked out.

 

How can you claim this? Melvin got worked in that trade, sadly. Right now I'd much rather have DD's innings & Eveland at AAA than the mess that came after this trade. If Estrada hadn't turned out to be such a freakin' bum, I'd even be happy with the trade.

I do not think anyone, especially Melvin, could have projected Estrada being a huge turd in the locker room, on the base paths, and behind the plate.

[dpapo]

Can't get enough Claudio Vargas talk, so here are a couple things mentioned by Melvin and Yost about the move in the Journal Sentinel.

 

"By keeping pitchers with options and reducing the payroll by nearly $3 million - dropping it from $82 million to about $79.3 million - Melvin said it could provide an opportunity to make other moves later.

"We have flexibility to sign someone, flexibility to trade for someone," Melvin said."

 

And

 

"By placing Parra in the fifth spot, which gets skipped at times, the Brewers can control his innings somewhat. Parra pitched 133 innings last season between Class AA Huntsville, Class AAA Nashville and Milwaukee.

"It's kind of a dual-edged sword," Yost said. "The Chicago series is very important, too. And the home opener is extremely important to me. We're trying to fit all of that, match up and get it right."

Yost said there was discussion also of including non-roster lefty Chris Narveson in the mix. Narveson has been impressive this spring, going 2-0 with a 2.55 ERA in six outings.

"There were a lot of votes for Narveson," Yost said. "He has painted himself into the picture, a little bit."

[TooLiveBrew]

I do not think anyone, especially Melvin, could have projected Estrada being a huge turd in the locker room, on the base paths, and behind the plate.

Don't forget "in the on-deck circle," and "on the chartered flights."

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[samwise]

"He has painted himself into the picture, a little bit."

I do not get this, either he is in the picture or not. How can he be in the picture a little bit? Is it just his lower half?

Maybe Ned misspoke due to not having his 8th cup of coffee by noon.

 

[JJHardy7]

I do not think anyone, especially Melvin, could have projected Estrada being a huge turd in the locker room, on the base paths, and behind the plate.

 

I don't know if that's entirely true. Look at how much he bounced around before coming to the Brewers. I'm sure they knew to some degree what they were getting.

[joepepsi]

I do not think anyone, especially Melvin, could have projected Estrada being a huge turd in the locker room, on the base paths, and behind the plate.

Don't forget "in the on-deck circle," and "on the chartered flights."

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

I don't doubt this, but when I hear stuff like this said about a player, I always want some kind of proof. I mean what level of a turd was he? A floater? A bottom of the bowl submarine? Do we have examples where he undermined management, or picked fights with players? Or did he just hog the buffet table and let loose with bad gas in the dugout?

 

[endaround]

I do not think anyone, especially Melvin, could have projected Estrada being a huge turd in the locker room, on the base paths, and behind the plate.

 

I don't know if that's entirely true. Look at how much he bounced around before coming to the Brewers. I'm sure they knew to some degree what they were getting.

Yep, Estrada was perona non gratta for three previous teams before the Brewers got him.

 

[TooLiveBrew]

He was a turd. Like a messy, 'too much beer & booze last night' turd.

[JJHardy7]

I don't doubt this, but when I hear stuff like this said about a player, I always want some kind of proof. I mean what level of a turd was he? A floater? A bottom of the bowl submarine? Do we have examples where he undermined management, or picked fights with players? Or did he just hog the buffet table and let loose with bad gas in the dugout?

 

I see what you're saying. They knew he was bad, but maybe they didn't know how bad he was or they thought they had the guys in the locker room that wouldn't allow for the behavior. He really was a waste of space. I was at the Atlanta game towards the end of the year where he must have ran the slowest I've ever seen anyone run to first base. Atlanta fans were even giving him a hard time and a few Braves fans told me they felt bad for me since Estrada was on the Brewers. He clearly didn't make any fans in Atlanta during his time there.

[Invader3K]

What I don't get is, supposedly Estrada was hurt, but basically had to play because he was catcher (I mean, would Damian Miller have been that big of an upgrade?). Rickie Weeks played most of the last two seasons hurt, apparently, but gets a free pass from everyone on this board. It seems a little unfair, to me. That said, I don't really miss Estrada, either.

[whizkid]

& Eveland at AAA

 

Do we know that Dana has options left? He was called up 7/05, not sure if he was on the 40 man prior to that or if he was sent down after, then spent time in the minors in 06 & 07.

[brewizard]

I don't doubt this, but when I hear stuff like this said about a player, I always want some kind of proof.

 

 

 

Well, at this point, perhaps we should post this:

 

 

 

http://www.pantagraph.com/content/articles/2007/08/02/sportsextra/doc46b26f8fab566571469373.jpg

 

 

 

However, in Estrada's defense, frankly, he's only doing something that many on this board would love to do - telling Ned Yost where to stick it...

[TooLiveBrew]

Rickie Weeks played most of the last two seasons hurt, apparently, but gets a free pass from everyone on this board.

 

Well, that's what tends to happen when you're still productive when hurt. And it's not correct at all to say "everyone" - there have been & remain many Weeks doubters/critics/skeptics.

[jwill535]

while what Johnny did was noble(sticking up for JJ) he is not the best guy to have standing up for you. Yost got mad at JJ for making a lazy play and you have Johnny "two steps out of the box then back to the dugout" Estrada. Graffy and Counsel standing up for you, hey i can see that. I would love to have seen Yost's face when Estrada yells at him for yelling at JJ for being lazy.

[Bruce Ciskie]

However, in Estrada's defense, frankly, he's only doing something that many on this board would love to do - telling Ned Yost where to stick it...

 

Couldn't agree more. That said, I didn't hear many good things about Mr. Estrada as a clubhouse figure. And I doubt his behavior was simply a repeat from other places, because there's no way we trade for him then. I have to figure it only got worse in Milwaukee because he realized Ned is an idiot. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Fatter than Joey]

Graffy and Counsel standing up for you, hey i can see that.

 

I seem to recall that Graffy was going after Yost as well.

[jwill535]

thats what i ment

[samwise]

I do not think anyone, especially Melvin, could have projected Estrada being a huge turd in the locker room, on the base paths, and behind the plate.

 

I don't know if that's entirely true. Look at how much he bounced around before coming to the Brewers. I'm sure they knew to some degree what they were getting.

JJ, you are probably right, and I think sometimes when a guy is out there with some perceived "character" issues, the people bringing him in (and fans for that matter, myself included) think that he will change. So my lofty expectations of him are partly to blame.

 

 

 

[RedbirdRay]

It's a bad sign when anytime a pitcher is thrown aside, he's automatically linked to your favorite team.

 

Narveson was a minor league free agent, so we didn't cut him. But, I really thought the organization should have held on to him. I hope it doesn't bite us.

 

We kinda have a log jam for A, AA, and AAA starting pitching slots. That's why we let him walk. It's ironic we have such a logjam because we dont' have too many guys with a ton of upside, though.

[trwi7]

Maybe Ned misspoke due to not having his 8th cup of coffee by noon.

 

Only 8 at noon? That means he needs to drink 17 more cups by midnight to keep up with his 25 cup per day pace!

[Fatter than Joey]

On a related note....

 

Did Cappy injure himself in ST, or was the need for TJ surgery discovered due to his ineffectiveness?

 

The reason I wonder, is because if DM overestimated Cappy's trade demand like he did Vargas -- he could have non-tendered both of them.

[endaround]

He did feel something snap in spring training

[brewjihad]

Did Cappy injure himself in ST, or was the need for TJ surgery discovered due to his ineffectiveness?

 

I think it was somewhat of a combination, if that makes any sense. He did feel something snap during spring training, but that was probably "the straw that broke the camel's back", for lack of a better figure of speech.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

Did Cappy injure himself in ST, or was the need for TJ surgery discovered due to his ineffectiveness?

 

I think it was somewhat of a combination, if that makes any sense. He did feel something snap during spring training, but that was probably "the straw that broke the camel's back", for lack of a better figure of speech.

I'm confused by this. It seems like your saying that Cappy is undergoing TJ simply because he was ineffective. Isn't there a better way to regain effectivness than undergoing major surgury and a year of rehab?