Claudio Vargas released

[TooLiveBrew]

Agreed, Logan. Though, the more time I have to think about it, the more I'm confident that Narveson/Jackson/DiFelice will be able to be - at worst - nearly as useful as Vargas.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

If this is what it took to get Vargas out of the rotation and Villy and Parra in, I'm all for it. Let's play some baseball.

[RobertR]

I think there has to be more to it than "Vargas makes too much money to be a long reliever". I don't want to say the money is irrelevant, but three of the Brewers' starters make right around the minimum, so who cares if the #5 or #7 starter makes $3 million?

 

I do think it's clear that Melvin misjudged the market for his depth. Still, if the Brewers were going to lose two pitchers from their depth, for whatever reasons, it could have been a lot worse than Capuano and Vargas.

 

Robert

[Bring Back the Stein]

I'm not going to get as much value out of my MLB package now that games won't take 3 hours. To reach the sixth inning.

 

I'm struck by the interest at losing Vargas and am trying to put myself five years ago and wondering what would happen now if we were to lose the likes of Shane Nance, much less Wayne Franklin. It suffices to say, I wish to never think of that pitching staff again. Thank you Doug Melvin, you mustachioed savior of baseball in Milwaukee.

[naivin]

Actually, if we are still playing in October, the answer is probably that one of those 3 starters is probably not on the team yet, and won't be until sometime in July.

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

I'm saying if we are in the playoffs this October, its possible if not likely that we will have made a move at midseason to strengthen the rotation. A move to create a bit more strength and experience at the top, and depth throughout..Somethimg more along the lines of Sheets, TBD, Gallardo, Suppan, Bush/Villenueva/Parra.

[Weirdos19]

I honestly think that when Yo gets healthy that Vargas and McClung are the two to be released.

 

Now, if the Brewers save cash by releasing Vargas before the season as somebody said earlier, keeping McClung for the first couple of weeks and then eating his smaller salary makes a ton of sense. Why be on the hook for 3.6 mil for 10 days of a long reliever?

 

I think there are a ton of Vargas type pitchers on the market. Might as well low ball a free agent for 750K than keep paying Claudio 3.6.

 

Who knows? Maybe Gross goes to a team for a long reliever.

[endaround]

Thing is the Brewers already have Narveson to be a long reliever (or even Choate when he gets healthy). Its why are they counting on McClung to provide long relief when there is amble proof that he could kill a pen if called upon?

[RightFieldCoder]

And the notion that Mota is apparently worth more than Vargas hurts my brain. If you look at it all as a whole, none of it makes sense.

Mota is in the last year of a multi-year deal. Hence, the Brewers have to pay the salary no matter what. They can cut Vargas and cut his salary. They might simply be close to equal but cutting Vargas saves money.

 

Obviously Vargas isn't worth $3M that some people think a #4-#5 is worth. Any team could have picked him up for that $3M if they paid the Brewers $20K. If 30 teams do not believe someone is worth $3M of his money, he's probably not worth $3M. Since he's such a non-wanted player (ala Estrada), I'm glad he is no longer on the team.

[Tbadder]

I keep reading that the Mets are the likely signees at this point. I really think he's gonna be snapped up, and not just for the major league minimum.

[EdgarDiazRocks]

If the get to the point of needing a 7th starter I suspect ZachJack could do just as well (or poorly) as Claudio.

I concur. Guys like Claudio Vargas can be plucked off the waiver wire all season long, like AZ did a few years ago with . . . Claudio Vargas.

 

 

 

 

[logan82]

I honestly think that when Yo gets healthy that Vargas and McClung are the two to be released.

 

Now, if the Brewers save cash by releasing Vargas before the season as somebody said earlier, keeping McClung for the first couple of weeks and then eating his smaller salary makes a ton of sense.

Vargas has already been released. I appologize if I am misreading your post and you already konw this. Vargas is gone and we saved $2.7M by releasing him now instead of tomorrow.

 

 

TLB,

You might be right about those guys being as good as Vargas. I remember Jackson a little and think he was much like Vargas where he went deep into alot of counts. I dont' know much about the other guys, so I would have felt more comfortable with Vargas since I know what we will get out of him. I never really liked Vargas. Maybe it is best that he is gone, but I won't feel confident or like this move until I see some of those other AAA guys pitch.

[chadomac]

I don't like having 5 2/3 starting pitchers. Parra doesn't count as a full pitcher since his innings will have to be limited.

It's more like 5 1/2 pitchers. Sheets doesn't count as 1, either.

 

[KCBrewerfan34]

God almighty, we are this broken up over Claudio Vargas, OK I'm preparing myself for future meltdowns, guys you need to relax. Vargas is absolutely no loss!!!!!

[rluzinski]

Mota is in the last year of a multi-year deal. Hence, the Brewers have to pay the salary no matter what. They can cut Vargas and cut his salary. They might simply be close to equal but cutting Vargas saves money.

 

First of all, they cut 75% of Vargas's salary and the remaining $900,000 isn't insignificant. Second, I'm familiar with Mota's history. The Brewers didn't have to pay Mota's salary because Melvin didn't have to trade for him in the first place. It's quite clear that Melvin never had any intention of keeping Vargas when he decided offer him arbitration. Melvin bet that he'd be able to trade Vargas and he bet wrong. He could have at least hedged his bet by not signing Mota (who just like Vargas, had negative value) and in very light pencil, marked Vargas down for that role if he couldn't move him. Instead, he has at least two guys with less value in the pen (Mota and McClung) and no real long reliever.

 

I'm still a big fan of Melvin but I think he screwed this up. I suspect that he would agree.

[logan82]

I changed my mind on why I don't like this. I now have to pick a different starter for grilling day. I used to be able to just grill whenever Vargas was pitching. You could pretty much leave whenever an at bat started and go out to flip everything and get a "soda". Now I will have to find somebody equally slow or wait until commercials. I see a lot of burned meat in my future.

[RU Rah Rah]

Has anyone done the math in terms of dividing the corps of remaining starters into the number of innings that we expect to be pitched by the rotation? If we expect the starters to cover about 972 innings (6 innings x 162), how are we going to get there with what we've got? (I'm not suggesting anything one way or another; I'm just curious if it will add up.)

 

The way I figure it (albeit just guessing) with the somewhat known commodities:

 

Sheets: 165 IP

Suppan: 195 IP

Bush: 195 IP

 

So that's 555 IP between those 3, leaving the remaining 417 to be divided among Gallardo, Parra, and Villy. That means they'd all have to get about 140 IP (which seems to be pushing the envelope, somewhat).

 

I suppose things could work out that way, but . . . you have three youngsters and one not-so-durable #1 starter. It seems likely that we would need a seventh guy, at some point. I am not saying that Vargas would necessarily be the perfect choice, but at least he is a known commodity. (Granted, the commodity is mediocre, but there are worse alternatives.)

[MoneyballMan]

Sorry - jumping in here late today, but I'm dumbfounded. I just can't believe we made this move. This one is going to come back to haunt us.

[southpaw121505]

I changed my mind on why I don't like this. I now have to pick a different starter for grilling day. I used to be able to just grill whenever Vargas was pitching. You could pretty much leave whenever an at bat started and go out to flip everything and get a "soda". Now I will have to find somebody equally slow or wait until commercials. I see a lot of burned meat in my future.

DVR bro, DVR http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

 

 

This move surprises me, and tells me a couple things. A) Gallardo won't be out long at all, I didn't think he would be, but I doubt they'd make this move if they were worried about Yo being out more than a couple starts. B) I agree with the other posters who said they are pleased with Narveson and possibly ZJ as the emergency depth.

 

When Yo comes back, where do we go?

 

- Keep Parra in rotation and watch his innings and maybe skip some starts, Bush (or CV) to the pen.

 

-Parra to AAA to limit innings and have on call when needed

 

-Parra to pen to limit innings

[brewjihad]

Now I will have to find somebody equally slow

 

Yet another reason to love the Brewers this year. Every starter works pretty fast. No more Claudio "The Human Rain Delay" Vargas.

 

Yes, there are ways this could have been handled better. But overall, I think the front office realized:

• He wasn't good enough to be in a contender's rotation
• He couldn't go to the minors
• He would be a good long man, but there are guys that could do what he could do just as well for less money, or (speculation) he told them he would rather be traded/released than start the year in the pen

Given that, I'm awfully glad they didn't just bite the bullet and put him in the rotation. And considering that Ned said today that Narveson got some votes in their discussion about who should be in the opening day rotation, I think they have enough confidence in him to step into the rotation for a few starts if needed.

[brewjihad]

When Yo comes back, where do we go?

 

- Keep Parra in rotation and watch his innings and maybe skip some starts, Bush (or CV) to the pen.

 

-Parra to AAA to limit innings and have on call when needed

 

-Parra to pen to limit innings

 

I'm guessing that Parra and Villanueva will be starting wherever they are this year. So the logical conclusion would be to send Parra to AAA for awhile until someone is injured or Villy needs a break. That's probably how the crew will play it. Heck, even with the lack of pitching depth now, we could still find ourselves in a situation where a major league caliber pitcher is blocked at AAA.

[JJHardy7]

First of all, they cut 75% of Vargas's salary and the remaining $900,000 isn't insignificant.

 

I don't see how it is significant. If you ballpark the 2008 payroll at $80 million the $900k is just over 1 percent of the payroll. I really don't think Melvin is losing sleep over that. If that's his biggest mistake he's the best GM in baseball.

[Weirdos19]

This is where the Brewers are saving money. They released Vargas now and will release McClung (when Yo comes off the DL) with Parra going to long relief to limit his innings. So Melvin decided that the 10 days (approx.) that Yo is on the DL isn't worth Vargas' salary, and I agree 100%.

 

If it were McClung released today and Vargas released when Yo comes back, we would be wondering why Melvin didn't just release Vargas before he was owed his 2008 salary.

 

They will put McClung on waivers, hoping he clears and goes to AAA. Very smart move by DM.

[bork]

So the Brewers are now paying $5.65 million for 3 guys not playing for them (Jenkins, Capuano, Vargas).

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

The brewers could have traded one of their surplus starters 3 months ago, and gotten something, but we elected to stand pat and ask for too much in return.

And if Yo's knee was more serious and another starter blows out his arm in ST, we enter the season with 5 starters and Zach Jack and Narveson as depth. When Yo is back in a few weeks we still have 6 legitimate starters and the other 2 guys for additional depth. 5th starters like Vargas are a dime a dozen and teams look at him as being equal to what they have and rebuilding teams don't want to pay his salary. We offered him arby in case pitchers started falling like crazy this spring and release him today so in effect it was a $900K insurance policy. Not a bad investment in my opinion.

 

I feel bad the Vargas gets shoved out the door at the end of ST but hopefully he can catch on somewhere and not haunt the Crew down the road.

[polwonks]

The sleeper here is Narveson should anyone falter- that's why they're not worried (plus saving 2.7 mill of course)