Claudio Vargas released

[Thurston Fluff]

This is minor and probably way out there but...

I wonder if his slow working approach combined with the Brewers desire to be better defensively have anything to do with this odd move. It's small I know but you always hear guys talk about how much easier it is to play defense behind a quick worker.

I just don't understand why they would let someone go when they don't have to. No one claimed him on waivers and he had an option left. SO maybe they just don't like his approach and feel they can find some other guy with similar talent with an approach they like better.

 

not sad the brewers waived him. What i'm more sad about is that the brewers could have traded bush, Cappy or vargus at the winter meetings, and used the pitcher not traded to fill in the gap. The brewers could have traded one of their surplus starters 3 months ago, and gotten something, but we elected to stand pat and ask for too much in return. We could have acquired a crede or Glaus, or rolen or blalock, or feliz or somebody.

 

That assumes there was any interest in Vargas in the off season or that the Brewers could get what they felt Bush or Cappy was worth. If they were that down on Vargas it wouldn't make much sense to trade Cappy or Bush and be stuck with someone who truned out to be less than a waiver wire pickup because of an injury. We certainly couldn't have got Glaus or Rolen type players for any of the three alone.

 

I think our starting depth will be ok unless we have a 2005 run of injuries to the staff. Even then we have better options than two years ago. IIRC Zach Jackson was one of the guys who didn't totally flop like JDLR, Eveland or Hendrickson did. With another year or so of work I'd suspect he's at least as capable now as then. After YoGa comes back I'm sure we'll see Parra go back down to help reduce innings. He'd obviously be the first back up.

I was surprised but not alarmed by this move.

[GormanHarvey]

There are obviously several different ways to look at this move, but the bottom line is that Doug Melvin and Co. will regret this move at some point during the season - most likely sooner rather than later. Whether it be because we could have used him do to injury etc, because he starts for someone else and has a nice season, or because he signs in the central and helps the Reds or Cards beat us in an important game or two, this move will be regretted!

[PrinceFielder28]

I'm glad to see Vargas go! I was really not looking forward to anymore long drawn out games. In Doug I trust!

[sbrylski]

There are obviously several different ways to look at this move, but the bottom line is that Doug Melvin and Co. will regret this move at some point during the season - most likely sooner rather than later.

 

Exactly. Its nice to start the season with the best pitchers you have on the club, but having a successful season is not about what your OD roster looks like.

[brewjihad]

It's possible that Vargas refused to go to the bullpen. That, and the salary reasons, are the only reasons I can think of for this.

[TooLiveBrew]

Wow. I'm surprised.

 

 

"Here in spring training there are three pitchers who earned the right to pitch in our starting rotation who weren't in our rotation last year. Those are Manny Parra, Carlos Villanueva and Yovani Gallardo."

 

 

"I called a number of ball clubs over the past 7-10 days, and I had trouble garnering any interest ... the past two days he was on waivers, anyone could have claimed him for $20,000."

 

-DM

 

Geez. Isn't the depth alone worth $3-4 mil.? I'm surprised the Melvin feels comfortable with the mix of Sheets/YoGa/Soup/Bush/Parra/Villy for the MLB starting 5. Is there something in the works right now?

 

It's possible that Vargas refused to go to the bullpen.

 

Good point.

[TheBrewer]

Give me a break. Hes a number 4-5 starter, sure hes nice to have depth with, but 3million for depth? Villanueva has done NOTHING to prove he's NOT capable of pitching in the major league rotation. Until he does I'm fine with Villanueva in the rotation, and rather have that potential and upside than have Vargas and his high ERA. This is not a move that makes or breaks the Brewers for gosh sakes. If 2 starters go down yea he might regret it, but at the same time if you go to the Cubs rotation or any rotation and knock 2 starters out with injuries you will have problems. Parra can be brought back up if an injury ocurrs. If were really in deep trouble which I highly doubt it, Melvin will acquire someone on the scrap heep on the cheap who can do what Vargas would've been doing. Give me a break guys.

[Klements Bratwurst]

The big question that I have is how is Manny Parra going to pitch into October if we are blessed with playing that long? I wonder if they have a plan for that?

 

Yo goes into the rotation when he returns and then what for Parra?

 

Sheets

Gallardo

Suppan

Villy

Bush

 

Parra to AAA to keep innings down? Or Parra continues to pitch in the rotation with one of the other starters going to the pen (Bush or Villy) and then mid year the Brewers move Parra to the bullpen for a mid summer rest before moving him back to the rotation for the stretch run??? If my math serves me right, Parra can only go 160 innings this year.

[brewjihad]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/03/25/brewers-save-2-7-million-on-vargas.aspx

 

Apparently they can save $2.7 million, to clear up the money issue.

[DrWood]

It's not a big deal at all unless someone gets hurt. If two guys get hurt it's pretty bad. Narveson, Jackson, Difelice...whoever else will be starting in Nashville..,don't even have a mediocre record in the majors. I'm also not keen on McClung being a long guy. He stunk as a starter, so I'm guessing he's more suited to short outings.

[twobrewers]

I think everyone is overreacting a little.

I mean, I guess I would prefer that we kept him. But losing a 5+ ERA isn't going to kill our team. Many people hark that "this is the year" and we need to treat it as such. Well, if we are really serious about this year - we shouldn't have 5+ ERA in our rotation.

The obvious counter argument is that we could have kept him for depth. You never want Vargas to start for you. But if Sheets and Gallardo go down for an extended period he would have been a decent option.

However, if the Brewers truly are in "win now" mode - we can always trade for more depth later. The Brewers are not stuck with this rotation. With Gamel, LaPorta, Escobar and more in the minor leagues we can always trade a prospect for a decent arm a the deadline.

I can't fault the Brewers for putting forward their best team. (The big question is, if they decided they didn't know Vargas now...what would they have done if Capuano hadn't gotten injured!?!?)

[TooLiveBrew]

Give me a break guys

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

 

 

Check around the league to see how much some teams pay for #4 / #5 starters. $3-ish mil. was a good deal.

[MJLiverock]

It doesn't make sense for Vargas to make $3M pitching in Nashville.

But is it any better to pay him $3MM to sit at home? Seriously, I am asking because it hasn't really been answered that I have seen here. Aren't the Brewers still responsible for paying his salary? If so it doesn't do much for the salary dump unless they are praying someone else will sign him and if so are the Brewers still responsible for his salary above the league minimum up to the the $3MM+ he is owed.

 

I just don't get it, why dump a mediocre bottom of the rotation guy you still have to pay? Especially since he had a decent spring, Cappy is done, and YoGa is hurt. Since he cleared waivers can't you just send him to AAA? If he doesn't report then is it a matter of being able to not pay him? It just seems silly to pay a guy to sit at home if he has some ability to produce average to slightly below average numbers.

 

I guess I agree with the earlier poster who questioned the wisdom of waiting and holding out for more on any combination of talked about trading chips of Bush, Vargas, Cappy, thrown around in the offseason. I kept hearing patience, patience, patience a deal can be made later but later is here and now the Brewers have nothing to show except Cappy is done and Vargas is gone but still getting paid. Seems like a lose lose proposition versus getting a bag of balls. Or does this simply point out we all overvalued what any of these guys could bring in a trade?

 

In the end I hope it works out that the pitching was so deep it made sense to just waive him.

 

 

Edit: Thanks for posting the link Jihad, it makes a little more sense now that I see they are only on the hook for the $900,000 of the $3.6MM.

[brewjihad]

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/03/25/brewers-save-2-7-million-on-vargas.aspx

 

Apparently they can save $2.7 million, to clear up the money issue.

 

Quoting my own post here. They only owe him $900,000.

[JJHardy7]

But is it any better to pay him $3MM to sit at home? Seriously, I am asking because it hasn't really been answered that I have seen here. Aren't the Brewers still responsible for paying his salary?

 

Click on the blog above posted by brewjihad. Brewers only have to pay $900k of his salary and save $2.7 million.

[TooLiveBrew]

See #83, which I presume was posted as you were typing, MJL. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[GormanHarvey]

Give me a break guys

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

 

 

Check around the league to see how much some teams pay for #4 / #5 starters. $3-ish mil. was a good deal.

Thank you! Vargas is what he is, but he is more than serviceable at the back end of the rotation and in my opinion is better than most people on here give him credit for and I believe he is going to improve.

[brewjihad]

The problem is that 3-ish mil is a lot for a long man in the pen, and I guess that's what he was going to be if he wasn't released.

[DrWood]

man, I wish I could get $900K to play baseball in spring training.

[MJLiverock]

Yeah, I edited my post above thanks to brewjihad. Posts are flying out so fast with a Brewer transaction I guess we can all see how much pent up angst there is waiting for the season to start.

[TooLiveBrew]

We're actually paying Mota more than we would have paid Claudio iirc. So maybe that's part of the reasoning too... I still think there's something else we don't know about this yet.

[7rebmun]

Did people get this upset when Matt Kinney left? Because they're the same pitcher. I felt that even before I looked at baseball-reference.com

 

Seriously, he was a below average starter that didn't have any upside left. He put a ton of guys on base, let lots of them score and taxed the bullpen. I was probably in the minority of the fans who was actually hoping he got cut.

 

Our rotation is solid 1-6 when Yo gets back. And since you really only need 4 in April, things are looking good. I highly doubt if Ben Sheets or anyone else goes down that having Claudio Vargas was going to make or break our season - it would have already been broken.

[GormanHarvey]

We're actually paying Mota more than we would have paid Claudio iirc. So maybe that's part of the reasoning too... I still think there's something else we don't know about this yet.

 

I hope so - maybe it will make more sense in the upcoming days...

[olliegjw]

Give me a break guys

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/eyes.gif

 

 

Check around the league to see how much some teams pay for #4 / #5 starters. $3-ish mil. was a good deal.

But he's not a #4 or #5 on the Brewers. He is #7. Check around the league and see how many teams are paying $3 million for their 7th best starter.

[GormanHarvey]

But he's not a #4 or #5 on the Brewers. He is #7. Check around the league and see how many teams are paying $3 million for their 7th best starter.

 

 

I think that is to be determined...