Report: Brewers mull offers to Braun, Fielder -> Latest: Offers made, decision to be made soon

[xisxisxis]

Why do people think there are that many fools out there dying to take that on?

 

Colleti, Sabean, Bavasi,Wade et al still have jobs. There's still plenty of suckers, err, GM's around who overvalue experience and seem to have a lot of money to throw down the drain.

[Invader3K]

Invader3K wrote:

Also, logan, I didn't get your comment about "not buying out FA years gains nothing." My understanding is that the offer to Braun would buy out at least one year of free agency, unless I've totally missed something.

I also said that anything more than 4 years is a mistake.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. Braun and Fielder are both very young, and have shown a lot already in their MLB careers. I think a five or six year deal for either one is a relatively safe investment (though I believe Braun is "safer" than Fielder at this point).

 

[RightFieldCoder]

They don't realize that the contracts are flexible. How often do we see players getting overpaid so that the buying team can appropriately plug a hole for a few years, then deal that "horrible contract" to another team in return for players?

Just look at all of those stud prospects we got for Jenkins.

[Invader3K]

Eh, Jenkins was still relatively productive the last couple years of his contract. Not really sure what better option we had, other than Geoff.

[adambr2]

I don't think its that most here don't understand contracts, as you seem to put it - most are just an incredibly nervous bunch. It shows in our hatred for these escalating contracts (What if we can't shed it?...What if he costs us the chance for better players?...What if, what if...AHHH!), and it also shows in the tendency for knee jerk reactions over player preformance, a general dislike of relievers, and constant threads like "Should we be worried about the Cardinals?"

Mark A's stance the entire time he's been owner is that if the right player is available - we'll go over budget. Retaining the rest of Suppan's contract may limit Melvin's flexibility slightly, but I don't think it will get in the way of any truly key acquisitions, as they will be made regardless.

The Brewers cut Vargas to save $2.5 million instead of having a really good 7th starting option. To pretend that paying Suppan near ace money over the next two years is no big deal or that its an easy to dump contract is foolish. Suppan is getting $27.5 million for 2009 and 2010 for his age 34 and 35 seasons. Why do people think there are that many fools out there dying to take that on?

 

 

I've pointed this out on several occasions. Suppan's contract is 12.5M for 2009, 12.5M for 2010 with an even bigger team option in '11.

 

That's probably low ace value for a very average pitcher. Nothing against Suppan, but I don't see why any team in MLB takes that contract on straight up. That'd be foolish. Every team has options -- contending teams usually have more. A team that isn't really a prospective contender certainly isn't going to take on Soup's contract. That leaves a smaller mix of teams. Of those teams, if they need to fill a starting pitchers role and have 12.5M a year to spend on a FA or trade, do you really think trading for Suppan, not only paying him but also giving up something to the other team, is going to be one of their first choices?

 

I could see it happening if we end up eating a few million each year from the contract, but otherwise, probably not.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's probably low ace value for a very average pitcher. Nothing against Suppan, but I don't see why any team in MLB takes that contract on straight up. That'd be foolish.

 

I agree with your final point -- as long as the Brewers look at those final two/three seasons as basically having $2-3 mil. 'buyout' options, then Soup could be dealt... and I believe rather easily. No, we won't get top-flight prospects, but that's not really even priority #1 in possibly dealing him. Suppan is a league-average innings eater, and that carries a lot of value.

 

You mention that "Every team has options -- contending teams usually have more." However, if you look around at the contending teams in the NL, I don't think there's a rotation that wouldn't be improved by adding Suppan. The Phillies run out Adam Eaton & Jamie Moyer as 2 of their rotation guys; Atlanta -- Chuck James & Jeff Bennett ( http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif yes, that Jeff Bennett); LAD -- Esteban Loaiza (& Derek Lowe has arm problems now, iirc); Arizona -- Edgar Gonzalez, Doug Davis, Randy Johnson; SD -- Randy Wolf, Justin Germano; NYM -- Nelson Figueroa.

 

I won't look at the AL, just since my point is a general (as opposed to specific) one. I also haven't proposed each of these pitchers to compare directly with Suppan & hash out 'who's better?' I'm not out to flame your post, I just think there's a lot of assumptions made that Suppan doesn't provide much value (not that you argue that explicitly, adambr2). I heartily disagree with those notions.

[logan82]

I think any team that could afford to take on Suppan's contract would rather sink another $3-4M per year and get a top of the rotation starter.

[kramnoj]

I think any team that could afford to take on Suppan's contract would rather sink another $3-4M per year and get a top of the rotation starter.

 

That's probably true, but how many of those will be available next year? And once the best guys are gone, some teams may still be interested in upgrading their team. Without looking, I'll guess that Suppan would be an upgrade to the majority of major league rosters.

[TooLiveBrew]

In addition to the lack of numbers in terms of top-tier SP, the cost to acquire one via trade would be much higher than getting Suppan. However, logan's point on 'bang for the buck' is certainly valid.

[kramnoj]

Here's a list of players that I expect would sign multi-year deals that are near league average or better this offseason: Oliver Perez, CC Sabathia, Randy Wolf, AJ Burnett, Jon Garland, John Lackey, Derek Lowe, Brad Penny, Ben Sheets.

 

That's actually a bit more than I expected. The other important factor is how many teams would be looking to spend money this offseason. I'm not up for trying to figure that out right now.

[monty57]

Mark A. accumulated his fairly vast net worth through managing highly complex financial transactions. I think he can figure out how to manage a MLB budget. I stopped worrying too much about the $ values being thrown around after Mark took over.