Report: Brewers mull offers to Braun, Fielder -> Latest: Offers made, decision to be made soon

[And That]

It appears to be reliable enough to make up the Brewers' future intentions with Braun.

[iluvlamp]

Trwi, just read his blog. He's like 18 years old and plugged in. Has some great interviews too.

[TooLiveBrew]

That blog has had some good info on contracts & trades this past offseason. It's just a guy speculating that doesn't have good access to inside Brewers info like we do here, imo. I can't fault him too much for trying to go a bit more in-depth. It's just... do your research.

 

I honestly wasn't bugged by the thought of moving Braun back to 3B... it was "keeping LaPorta in his natural position seems likely" that irked me. That one isn't hard to research in a quick Google search.

[sbrylski]

Apparently Billy Beane said some good things about this blog once. Weird:

 

Then there's Eli Greenspan, a 17-year-old high school junior from Glencoe, whose blog, Eli's MLB Rumors, has drawn praise from Oakland Athletics general manager Billy Beane, among others. As of March 15, the site had drawn 1.6 million visitors and prompted Nike, PetSmart, Cingular and Circuit City to become advertisers.

[TooLiveBrew]

I heard that Beane once said that blog was too fat to be any good...

[sbrylski]

I heard that Beane once said that blog was too fat to be any good...

Sabean>>>>>Beane

[Gopher74]

Well, frankly, I think it is likely to be one or the other, realistically. Yeah, if we can somehow keep both long term, that would be awesome, but is that realistic? I doubt it.

I don't think it's really worth it to lock up Prince long term. Especially at the price that Boras would demend in order to do it.

 

If' we're talking about a 5 year 70 million dollar deal, I could stomach that. If we're talking about a huge 100 million dollar deal, then...umm..no. Simply not worth it at this point.

The problem is, I believe that Mark A WILL do it, even if it doesn't make sense.

 

IF the choice are keeping Braun+Prince+one of our other players, Hart, Hardy, Weeks, ect...

And

Hart, Weeks, Gallardo, Braun and Hardy then it's not a difficult decision for me.

 

 

[Invader3K]

The problem is, I believe that Mark A WILL do it, even if it doesn't make sense.

Interesting. What are you basing that on?

[logan82]

Invader3K wrote:

Interesting. What are you basing that on?

They signed Suppan.

[twobrewers]

The problem is, I believe that Mark A WILL do it, even if it doesn't make sense.

I think you might be right. Mark A is still under pressure to show we aren't "the same old Brewers".

 

The average fan would be irate if Prince left via free agency (or worse, a trade), because they don't always understand the economic aspect of these long term deals. The truth is, Prince leaving before he hits 30 years is probably the best move for the Brewers.

[Invader3K]

Invader3K wrote:

Interesting. What are you basing that on?

They signed Suppan.

Not really relevant. Suppan's deal is shorter and probably for less money than any contract the Brewers would likely be offering Fielder.

 

At any rate, if Braun signs, I'm going to be ecstatic. I think out of all the Brewers' young players, Braun is probably the safest in terms of being a "sure thing."

[logan82]

Invader3K wrote:

Not really relevant. Suppan's deal is shorter and probably for less money than any contract the Brewers would likely be offering Fielder.

 

At any rate, if Braun signs, I'm going to be ecstatic. I think out of all the Brewers' young players, Braun is probably the safest in terms of being a "sure thing."

I think signing Suppan is relavant. He said he thought Mark A would do anything even if it didn't make sense. You asked what he based that off of. I thought signing Suppan is a good example of Mark A wanting something done that didn't make sense. Much like signing players to longer than 4 years or signing player to contracts that don't buy out FA years. Longer than 4 years can lead to franchise crippling contracts. Not buying out FA years gains nothing. This means you shouldn't deal with players until they are in at least their 1st arby year(maybe 2nd with Braun, depends on super 2 status). Like it or not we have a limited budget. I like all our young players, but I really cheer for laundry. I don't like the Brewers because Fielder plays for them, I like Fielder because he plays for the Brewers. I am a Brewer fan and I want what is best for the team, long and short term. I will enjoy the players while we have them and wish them well when we trade them for younger cheaper players or when they leave for market value.

[PeaveyFury]

I thought signing Suppan is a good example of Mark A wanting something done that didn't make sense.

 

How did signing a guy who will eat 200+ innings at an above average level when you have 3-4 other guys on the staff that won't come close to 200 innings along with a shaky bullpen not make sense?

[logan82]

I thought signing Suppan is a good example of Mark A wanting something done that didn't make sense.

 

How did signing a guy who will eat 200+ innings at an above average level when you have 3-4 other guys on the staff that won't come close to 200 innings along with a shaky bullpen not make sense?

We paid 4-5 times what we would have paid a comparable young player. He is not a top of the rotation starter. He is rotation filler.

[jazzytrav]

I think signing Suppan made sense now, but at the time it just seemed like we stuck ourselves with an expensive contract for an older guy when we have all of these younger guys coming up looking for money. That part sometimes didn't seem to make sense back then.

 

But now, Suppan's deal will be done by the time we really have to start paying up for Fielder and Braun (assuming they don't sign long-term now). At the time, I think a lot of people were wondering how we were going to pay Hardy and Weeks because they were the big name prospects that were up with the big club. Well, Weeks, probably won't get a huge deal mostly because he's a 2nd baseman (that's all I'm saying, no more Weeks conversation please), and Hardy is now the most replaceable because of Escobar.

 

I guess my point is that the Suppan deal didn't seem to make sense when factoring in future decisions when the deal was made, but somehow it all seems to work out.

[logan82]

I actually think it makes less sense the further we get into the contract. Our good players were, and are, young and cheap. Going forward the next 2 years is when Suppan's contract really starts to get expensive and also is about the same time our young players are going to start getting expensive.

[Oldcity]

Why do people continue to dismiss the fact that Suppan's no-trade clause ends after this year? After this season it's only limited. Sure it might not be easy to move him, but if the Brewers kick in a few mil there will be takers. Isn't it easy to see that this contract was drawn up with a trade in mind?

[kramnoj]

I thought signing Suppan is a good example of Mark A wanting something done that didn't make sense.

 

How did signing a guy who will eat 200+ innings at an above average level when you have 3-4 other guys on the staff that won't come close to 200 innings along with a shaky bullpen not make sense?

We paid 4-5 times what we would have paid a comparable young player. He is not a top of the rotation starter. He is rotation filler.

 

I don't understand your point. Which comparable young players are you talking about? You can't be talking about free agents, can you? I also don't understand your distinction between top of the rotation and filler. They all get the same number of starts. Suppan provides value by giving a lot of league average innings. The Brewers don't have 5 better starters than Suppan, so Suppan is a valuable member of this team's chance of getting to the playoffs this year. I would be shocked if Suppan's salaray prevented the Brewers from making any decisions they want to make.

[Invader3K]

It just seems that people on here are always hung up on Suppan's contract as if it totally prohibits the Brewers from making future moves. It doesn't, otherwise they wouldn't even be offering contracts to Fielder and Braun right now. I think people are just mad that the economics of baseball dictate that even a very average pitcher like Jeff Suppan makes a ton of money, money which only top level aces would have made a few years ago, and totally discount the fact that he will probably pitch more innings again this year than any other Brewers starter. That's a huge thing with such a young pitching staff. No one, including the Brewers' front office, was ever pretending Suppan was going to come in and contend for a Cy Young award. If people were thinking that, they were being totally naive. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, Suppan's contract runs out after 2010 (though there is a club option for 2011 with a club buyout opportunity). Prince Fielder doesn't hit FA until 2012, and Braun doesn't until 2013. How exactly does Suppan's contract affect any of this, again?

 

Also, logan, I didn't get your comment about "not buying out FA years gains nothing." My understanding is that the offer to Braun would buy out at least one year of free agency, unless I've totally missed something.

[joepepsi]

Actually by having the key players on the team making relatively little $$, the Brewers can afford to outbid bigger market teams for average veterans that plug the holes. Suppan, Cameron, and Kendall are worth their contracts because more than likely, if the Brewers didn't offer them such huge contracts the team would be stuck with replacement level or inexperienced kids in these roles. This would contribute to the losing cycle of constant rebuilding instead of trying to win now.

[DHonks]

Stevo,

 

I've always found it hilarious that Brewers fans complain about contracts. They don't realize that the contracts are flexible. How often do we see players getting overpaid so that the buying team can appropriately plug a hole for a few years, then deal that "horrible contract" to another team in return for players? This is not like signing a contract to work for a normal job...you're overpaying to keep someone, knowing full well that you likely will deal them before the end of the deal.

[sbrylski]

Stevo,

 

I've always found it hilarious that Brewers fans complain about contracts. They don't realize that the contracts are flexible. How often do we see players getting overpaid so that the buying team can appropriately plug a hole for a few years, then deal that "horrible contract" to another team in return for players? This is not like signing a contract to work for a normal job...you're overpaying to keep someone, knowing full well that you likely will deal them before the end of the deal.

I don't think its that most here don't understand contracts, as you seem to put it - most are just an incredibly nervous bunch. It shows in our hatred for these escalating contracts (What if we can't shed it?...What if he costs us the chance for better players?...What if, what if...AHHH!), and it also shows in the tendency for knee jerk reactions over player preformance, a general dislike of relievers, and constant threads like "Should we be worried about the Cardinals?"

Mark A's stance the entire time he's been owner is that if the right player is available - we'll go over budget. Retaining the rest of Suppan's contract may limit Melvin's flexibility slightly, but I don't think it will get in the way of any truly key acquisitions, as they will be made regardless.

[logan82]

Invader3K wrote:

Also, logan, I didn't get your comment about "not buying out FA years gains nothing." My understanding is that the offer to Braun would buy out at least one year of free agency, unless I've totally missed something.

I also said that anything more than 4 years is a mistake.

[endaround]

I don't think its that most here don't understand contracts, as you seem to put it - most are just an incredibly nervous bunch. It shows in our hatred for these escalating contracts (What if we can't shed it?...What if he costs us the chance for better players?...What if, what if...AHHH!), and it also shows in the tendency for knee jerk reactions over player preformance, a general dislike of relievers, and constant threads like "Should we be worried about the Cardinals?"

Mark A's stance the entire time he's been owner is that if the right player is available - we'll go over budget. Retaining the rest of Suppan's contract may limit Melvin's flexibility slightly, but I don't think it will get in the way of any truly key acquisitions, as they will be made regardless.

The Brewers cut Vargas to save $2.5 million instead of having a really good 7th starting option. To pretend that paying Suppan near ace money over the next two years is no big deal or that its an easy to dump contract is foolish. Suppan is getting $27.5 million for 2009 and 2010 for his age 34 and 35 seasons. Why do people think there are that many fools out there dying to take that on?

 

[TooLiveBrew]

end, you always seem to neglect the possibility/plausibility of the Brewers just eating $2-3 mil. per season on that Soup deal in an effort to trade him. Given how salaries have escalated, and that Suppan is likely to age 'better' (in that his decline will likely be less pronounced than a power pitcher) than many 34/35 y-o's, I think there is a very decent chance that the Crew will be able to deal him.