Is 2008 Yost's last shot? Latest: What are we doing? I am getting worried! (reply #212)

[adambr2]

I would have to say that it most likely is.

The fact that Melvin and Mark A. are letting him manage as a "lame-duck" manager alone indicates that they are uncertain of his future.

 

He was good with the young guys when he was brought in....but this is Yost's sixth year. He's not the new guy on the block anymore. 6 years, a new owner, and an $85 million dollar payroll.

 

Say what you want about why we didn't succeed in 2007, but barring unforseen circumstances, I believe Yost will not see his contract renewed without a playoff berth.

 

 

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Note: It's been reported that Ned's 2009 option was picked up in December. Jump to reply #84 for discussion.

 

--1992casey

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[Ennder]

Well it really depends on how things play out. If the team has another late season collapse I'd imagine he is gone. If the team isn't over .500 barring a ton of injuries I'd say he is gone.

 

But if the team wins like 85 games and the Cubs or Reds win 87 to take the division I'm not so sure Yost is gone.

[logan82]

I really think he has only had one real year to manage and that was last year. Other than that the focus was on developing talent. I do however think the Brewers need to either be sucessful or have a ton of injuries for Yost to keep his job. I am not really sure what successful means to Mark A. though. I guess I would say playoffs or 86+ wins without a last half colapse. Tough to set a benchmark really.

 

Listen to the #7 interview(or lower) and way at the end Tom H. says something about Mark really wanting to win. Yost and Melvin need to have a pretty good season to keep their jobs I think.

 

http://www.wtlx.com/content/podcasts

[zingsheim]

Ned's already on thin ice, and I agree that without a playoff birth we probably show ned the door.

[TooLiveBrew]

Milwaukee may never again have this much talent together at the same time on the MLB roster again. IMO 2008 is the best shot to win a WS title since the early 80s. We haven't had a better shot since then until now, and there's no reason to expect that the Brewers will ever see a better one.

 

If Yost thought he was under a microscope last year, he's going to really feel the pressure this year. And this time the main sets of eyes hovering over that microscope are going to have a helluva lot more to say about his job security than the countless fans did last year. The patience of Attanasio & Melvin last year with Yost was downright startling to me. Ned will not have that luxury in 2008.

[pete]

Who remembers what Melvin said after the season last year? It wasn't that he had a short leash, but my recollection is that it was something that could be interpreted that way.

[TooLiveBrew]

IIRC, it was Haudricourt interpreting something that Melvin had told him. We here blew it a bit out of proportion, but I think it's only fair to say that Tom was the one who had the conversation, so he'd likely know better than any of us.

[logan82]

From the sound of Haudricourt's interview with Homer you get the feeling that Melvin and Yost are under a win "or else." Yost moreso, but I think Melvin isn't to far behind. I don't think that Yost would be fired midseason. I would see that as giving up on the season.

[don1481]

I don't think that Yost would be fired midseason. I would see that as giving up on the season.

 

I could see it, especially if the club happens to come across a candidate that the Brewers feel gives the Brewers the best chance to win.

 

Why they don't just hire BF.Net to collectively run this franchise is beyond mehttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[GenoSeligPrieb]

Sadly, I don't think it is Ned's Last Stand.

 

When Mark jumped in with those 2 horrifying votes of confidence in Septembe 3rd and on the last day of the season, among the things he noted was that the Brewers are playing before bigger crowds, TV ratings were up, and the team finished with a winning record. "Ned is fine" we were told.

 

And that 500-lb. gorilla in the room - another historic 2nd half choke job by a team managed by Ned - was never mentioned. THAT'S how low the bar is set.

 

And if Sheets gets hurt this season? Any other starting position player? Ned may even get an extension.

 

If his job hasn't been even questioned yet, why now?

[adambr2]

That's what bothers me a little and makes me think that the bar is still set at a .500ish level for Ned. It's like we're so used to losing baseball in Milwaukee, anything better and we should feel priviliged.

 

Ned did lead us to our first winning season in 15 years, but it was due to a roster that was a hell of a lot more talented than pretty much any other in the last 15 years. It wasn't because he did the best managing job in the last 15 years. Yost has had 6 years to work with this core, he is blessed with MVP type talent at a couple positions, all-star talent at other positions, two ace arms in the rotation, and at least average MLB ability at pretty much every position. He also has a payroll now pushing $90 million, unheard of 6-7 years ago. Seriously, the excuses are over for Yost -- at least they should be.

 

2007 was actually less satisfying to me than '06 or '05. In '05, it felt good to get back to .500. We took a little step back in '06, but with the countless injuries, there wasn't much that could have been done.

 

In 2007, we had the talent to win a very weak, easy division, and we didn't do it. Somehow, after a 24-10 start, we managed to add Gallardo AND Braun and stay relatively healthy, and still finish the season 10 games under .500 after the 24-10 start, while choking away an 8.5 game division lead.

 

Honestly, I was a big Yost fan until '07. He lost me last year. I hope his team puts it together in '08.

[pete]

"Ned is fine" we were told.

 

And that 500-lb. gorilla in the room - another historic 2nd half choke job by a team managed by Ned - was never mentioned.

Whether or not Yost is safe or on thin ice, Mark A. couldn't say much else. That gorilla in the room is lost revenues among other things to him. Melvin said something like expectations were higher next season at the end of last. I don't know what level that means, but they might not either.

 

I have this fantasy that Bobby Cox's health forces him to retire and somehow Yost is drawn away. Well, I'm not sure how that would happen, but dreams aren't always logical.

[1992casey]

This thread has superseded Yay or Nay as the new Yost thread in the Designated Threads List.

[sbrylski]

When Mark jumped in with those 2 horrifying votes of confidence in Septembe 3rd and on the last day of the season, among the things he noted was that the Brewers are playing before bigger crowds, TV ratings were up, and the team finished with a winning record. "Ned is fine" we were told.

 

I disagree. I think that comment was purely to maintain a solid, comfortable working relationship. Doesn't mean he isn't actually on ice.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"In 2007, we had the talent to win a very weak, easy division, and we didn't do it. Somehow, after a 24-10 start, we managed to add Gallardo AND Braun and stay relatively healthy, and still finish the season 10 games under .500 after the 24-10 start, while choking away an 8.5 game division lead.

 

Honestly, I was a big Yost fan until '07. He lost me last year."

 

Every sentence is on the nose for me, except the 2nd-to-last one, adam, but you were close! From a 1 to 10, with 1 being a hater, and 10 being a Ned-lover, I was more like a 3. But I can pin it down to ONE game which crystallized his crapulence as a manager, when he specifically lost me, too:

 

That night game at Wrigley, August 30th in the top of the 9th. With righty Ryan Dempster on the ropes, and better options available, defying logic, Ned stuck with Mench, and....well, you can imagine what happened.

 

From Tom's game article the next day in the Journal-Sentinel :

 

The Brewers had their chance to avoid another tough loss in the ninth, when they loaded the bases with two outs against Cubs closer Ryan Dempster, who walked Corey Hart to force in a run. But Kevin Mench bounced to short on the first pitch he saw from Dempster to end the game.

 

Mench was hitting .215 against right-handers and Yost had Geoff Jenkins, a .271 hitter against righties, available on the bench. But Yost said he didn't consider Jenkins' career numbers against Dempster (4 for 17) compelling enough to make a switch.

 

"I went with the flow of the game," Yost said. "That was it for me. (Mench) was in the game."

 

If this was a playoff game, Ned would have barbecued worse than Grady Little. The team continued to circle the drain, for a 2nd Ned collapse of biblical proportions. But not only did he escape with his job intact, but management didn't even hold it against him.

 

If we make the playoffs this year with Ned still in charge, it'll be either because a) our talent is as good as Boston's or Detroit's, or b) The Cubs and Reds will have major injuries to half their teams.

[brewtank34]

adambr2 said...
"Honestly, I was a big Yost fan until '07. He lost me last year. I hope his team puts it together in '08. "

......dispite Yost's shortcomings at being a manager, of course.

Let's just all hope that Simmons does a little magic act and use Yost as his puppet. Seriously, with a payroll of $73-$78 million......you need a top of the line Manager. Yost just doesn't cut it. I like the guy, but he just doesn't have the know-how to do so.

The Brewers are simply one of the best teams in the NL...(man, it's nice to say that). We're getting in the playoffs this year, and it ain't going to be because of Yost's unbelievable turn-around of coaching ability. It's going to be Weeks tearing it up to new heights, YoGo amazing us with his youthful dominance, of Hart's rise to becoming a household name, Braun and Fielder doing what they do---which is just unGodly awesome to watch. I digress... We're making the playoffs this year and it AIN'T going to be because of Yost....


This is OUR year!!!! GO BREWERS!!!!

[brains and braun]

Maybe Ned's replacement is already on the scene. I'm not sure I'd mind Ted Simmons taking over the job in June.

[1992casey]

Yeah, Geno, it was that Mench-Dempster non-move that officially made me fall of the fence into the Yost-nay camp.

 

And like you, I wan't happy with the votes of confidence. That put Attanasio and Melvin into the position of either

• not being able to fire Yost

or

• firing Yost and looking like fools

At that point, as much as I wanted Ned gone, I'd have been much more concerned about a rudderless ship in ownership and the front office had a post-season firing occurred.

 

Getting back to adambr2's thread title--"Is 2008 Yost's last shot?"--I think so. While Ned was given votes of confidence during the season, his option wasn't picked up, either. I think that says a lot.

[sbrylski]

Maybe Ned's replacement is already on the scene. I'm not sure I'd mind Ted Simmons taking over the job in June.

I think this is the over whelming majority viewpoint. Maybe not in June, but if we struggle to 81, I too think Simmons is our 2009 skipper.

[jason21nl]

its playoffs or bust for Yost this year. Even if major injuries happen I think he still needs to find a way to get his team to the playoffs. I also think that Yost will be on short rope.

[TauPentaRei]

I had to watch that Mench at-bat from Wrigley. It was sad. It proved Yost's cluelessness. Jenkins deserved (was entitled?) a shot to win that game. It cost me many many beers in side bets.

 

Unfortunately, it is one of the handful of things that I recall so vividly from last season. (the gut wrenching ephemeral yet lingering depression following the extra inning Braves loss courtesy of Cordero and McClung is the most powerfully poignant)

 

2007 was Yost's interview. Cox's applause of Ned pre-contract extension is worth peanuts to me now. Unsalted stale soggy peanuts. No injuries save for the annual Sheets vacations; no excuses.

 

If this team meddles out to a 25 - 25 record I can see Simmons getting the Captain's Hat. (?Kremblas up to bench coach / token Milwaukee presence / good vibration purveyor?)

 

So that seems to be the majority opinion around here, but what qualifies Teddy - other than his not-ned-ness - from delivering a winner? This will be a VERY interesting power/authority dynamic to see get established considering the history.

[pete]

This will be a VERY interesting power/authority dynamic to see get established considering the history.

 

Yeah, you're right, but its like watching a movie with the sound turned off. You see characters gesturing. You see them come and go. But you have to guess at what's really going on and what's to come.

 

I wonder how good a manager Frank Kremblas would be.

[hauser42]

If this team gets off to a slow start Yost will get the ax and Simba will take over the club. If they stay in the race all year Yost will get one more chance with this team. Simmons though looks to be the next manager on this team down the road.

Why would Melvin be on the hot seat?? He has built this team to be one of the best in the NL and has been given only last year to see if he could get into the playoffs. Canning Melvin in the near future is people feeling we are th Yankees and need to contend any year.

.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I'd say yes to this being Yost's last shot. No to Simmons being the manager in 2008. He's had offers like that in the past and didn't want them, plus doesn't he have a bad ticker? I bet he doesn't mind being in the dugout, but he doesn't want the stress of being the man who has to answer all the questions.

 

Perhaps this should be a different topic/post, but I'm slightly concerned that several posters think that Melvin's butt might be on the line in 2008 too. If he were to be fired after the 2008 season, I would think there would be quite a few teams interested in his services. Heck if I was Pittsburg, I'd fire the new GM I just hired and get Melvin. He'd probably raid the Brewers organization of all the unpolished diamonds, just like he did with Texas.

[logan82]

hauser42 wrote:

Why would Melvin be on the hot seat?? He has built this team to be one of the best in the NL and has been given only last year to see if he could get into the playoffs. Canning Melvin in the near future is people feeling we are th Yankees and need to contend any year.

I guess the question would be "why is Yost on the hot seat?" He has only had one good team to work with in 5 years.