Why is roster being held hostage by Seth McClung and his 6.16 ERA?

[logan82]

danplesac wrote:

I know Parra had a rough game today but that guy has nothing but potential. I can see him being the team's #3 starter by 2010 easily.

I think Parra ends up as #1 or #2 in our rotation unless we pick up another pitcher somewhere or miraculously keep Sheets after this year.

 

Vargas is terrible and I would pay somebody to take McClung to keep him out of our rotation. I was all for trading Vargas all off season and I am now glad we didn't. I don't want him in the rotation unless we absolutely have to.

[TooLiveBrew]

You really can't do much better than Vargas in terms of a #6 or #7 SP. We can only hope that's how he's actually utilized.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Having CV in Nashville in April isn't a crazy idea. It makes sense to a certain degree.

If that's how you feel about this, it sounds like you agree with me and are playing devil's advocate. I agree that it makes sense to a certain degree and it's not a crazy idea, but I don't think the move is the best for the team. But, I do like Doug Melvin and he knows baseball way better than I do so let's see how this plays out. Play Ball!!!!

[brewjihad]

You really can't do much better than Vargas in terms of a #6 or #7 SP. We can only hope that's how he's actually utilized.

 

Exactly. It sure is nice to have him as an option. He has value to this club, just not as a full-time starter.

[hauser42]

It is so nice to see the Crew have a problem of having too many options on the mound.

IMO it is better for Villy to stay in the minors and make sure he is ready and stretched out to be a starter. Then if someone is hurt or not preforming the bring him up into the rotation and move some other guys around so he can be a starter.

Would like to know when Villy became the next great thing. Yes he has some nice stats last year, but he has not done it over the long haul. So easily he could be a whipping boy on this site by mid-seasonif he doesnt live up to all the accolades being given to him already.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Would like to know when Villy became the next great thing. Yes he has some nice stats last year, but he has not done it over the long haul. So easily he could be a whipping boy on this site by mid-seasonif he doesnt live up to all the accolades being given to him already.

We don't know if Villy is the next great thing, but at least he has upside. Vargas and Bush are proven pitchers that will put up mediocre numbers. You have to dig to strike gold.

[JJHardy7]

We don't know if Villy is the next great thing, but at least he has upside. Vargas and Bush are proven pitchers that will put up mediocre numbers. You have to dig to strike gold.

 

Doesn't this contradict the "win now" mode by admitting that we don't know as much about Villy? I think the "win now" thing will be an issue when Cameron is through with his suspension and Yo comes off the DL. I'm thinking with those moves coming up McClung might be sent down then (granted he clears waivers).

 

I think CV will be a good pitcher, but I really hope the Brewers can keep him as a starter no matter what level he is at in 2008. I think it's important for him to have a role and not burn out his arm out of the bullpen. As long as CV is starting in Milwaukee or Nashville in April, I'll be fine with that. I just want to point out again the game difference (Nashville has 2 fewer days in April) and the fact that the Brewers are more likely to get games rained/snowed out than Nashville and PCL -- I think this is my main reason that I think CV starting in Nashville is fine.

[BrewCrewForever]

He's nice to have around if Ned decides late in the season in an important game to have him plunk someone as retaliation. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[brewjihad]

(Nashville has 2 fewer days in April)

 

Does that have something to do with daylight savings time and/or time zones? I thought that was February... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Anyway, Villanueva will be starting wherever he is this year. The thing is that he isn't perceived to have durability or innings issues like Parra does, so some think that he should be in Milwaukee's rotation all year, with Parra filling in for Gallardo until he returns and then sending Parra down to limit his innings for awhile. In that situation, Vargas is the long man in the pen and starter in case of emergency. This scenario, of course, would be dependent upon Seth McClung not being the long man, to bring it back to the issue at hand.

[JJHardy7]

It looks like McClung will indeed make the 25 man roster.

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/03/25/mcclung-will-make-the-team.aspx

I also don't think it's a sure fire thing that CV is headed to Nashville...I wouldn't be surprised if it's Parra. Either way I can see the logic in it -- it is only April -- and hopefully Parra and CV stay healthy all year and are in Milwaukee a decent portion.

To clarify there are 2 fewer OFF DAYS in Nashville than Milwaukee in April. Thanks for pointing that out brewjihad http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[endaround]

Can't wait until Vargas only goes 4 innings, McClung comes in at throws a 50 pitch inning and then the bullpen has to cover 4 innings wearing it out!

[patrickgpe]

this really don't make sense. I have always envisioned McClung as very expendable. We could probably of gotten a AA prospect for a team looking for some middle relief.

I think from a win now prospective I think it makes more sense to send the CV/ Parra rotation looser to the pen.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Doesn't this contradict the "win now" mode by admitting that we don't know as much about Villy?

No, because when I say "upside" I am talking about his potential for this year. He has the potential to have the best ERA of anyone in our rotation not named Sheets or Gallardo. This will all sort itself out though when Vargas starts sucking and Gallardo comes back, but the bad part is that it will cost us games in the process.

[JoeHova]

Doesn't this contradict the "win now" mode by admitting that we don't know as much about Villy?

Carlos Villanueva, age 24

168 major league innings. 3.86 ERA, 138 Ks

473.1 minor league innings. 3.25 ERA, 470 Ks

 

Seth McClung, age 27

 

263 major league innings, 6.16 ERA, 187 Ks

 

584 minor league innings. 3.54 ERA, 555 Ks

 

 

So, Villanueva is even superior at McClung's sole reason for being employed- strikeouts. Truthfully, I think keeping McClung is just a terrible move. Villanueva is probably their 3rd most valuable pitcher and he's going to be wasted in AAA for god knows how long so we can keep some scrub who has a 1% chance of becoming Derrick F. Turnbow. Also, who knows what this will do to Villanueva's psyche after turning in two seasons of sub 4 ERA pitching in the major leagues.

 

I thought this was going to be the season when the Brewers tried to make the playoffs for the 3rd time in their abysmal 40 year history. I guess I was wrong. It seems keeping guys with the upside of being one of the most erratic relievers in MLB is more important.

[patrickgpe]

well yogo will be off the dl in mid-april (knock on wood) and a roster move will have to be made. maybe this a temporary move.

[brwrsfan]

It might be easier to sneak McClung threw waivers in a couple of weeks than it is right now? Or would that not make a difference? When Yo comes back, I assume it's McClung to go...?

[lukevan]

He has the potential to have the best ERA of anyone in our rotation not named Sheets or Gallardo.

 

So do about 4 other pitchers we have.

[JohnBriggs12]

Let's compare the Cub long reliever with McClung.

 

Cubs have Jon Lieber, a proven major league starting pitcher. Excellent control. 129 lifetime wins. Hasn't had a season with an ERA over 5 since Bill Clinton's first term.

 

Brewers have the poster child for lack of command. He's Turnbow only more consistently bad.

 

Meanwhile headed to minors after losing his starting rotation spot by posting a 1.99 ERA last September is one Carlos Villanueva. If the players union can file a grievance for Bonds, shouldn't they file one on Villanueva's behalf.

 

Would love to see Miller Park filled with signs saying "Where's Villy?"

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

So do about 4 other pitchers we have.

Out of Vargas, Bush, and Villanueva, the pitcher with the best chance of posting an ERA under 4 is Villy. Any objections to that? That's what I was getting at.

[endaround]

Lots of objections to that. Bush projects just as well as Villanueva. Vargas about 1/2 to 1 run worse.

[JoeHova]

Well, I would rather have Vargas than McClung as well, so I'm still not happy about this latest turn of events. The team's love affair with McClung is kinda inexplicable.

[homer]

Anyone know where you can get McClungs' stats as a starter and as a reliever?

[JJHardy7]

So, Villanueva is even superior at McClung's sole reason for being employed- strikeouts. Truthfully, I think keeping McClung is just a terrible move.

 

I was referencing the post made comparing Villy to Bush and Vargas. I don't think the Brewers wanting McClung over Villy in Milwaukee ever played a factor into this, but I might be able to find out in a few weeks when the Sounds move back to Nashville.

[TooLiveBrew]

Anyone know where you can get McClungs' stats as a starter and as a reliever?

Baseball-reference.com:

 

McClung Career Splits

Scroll down to "Pitching Role"

 

 

EDIT: Seth as SP - 195 1/3 IP, 4.9 BB/9, 6 K/9, 1.57 HR/9, 6.17 ERA (37 starts)

[JJHardy7]

Just thought I'd 'bump' this thread since I can't find the McClung thread. I'm not saying or ever said McClung is an all-star or anything, but I've said many times he has the potential to be pretty good. The way he went after hitters tonight was darn impressive. McClung pitched pretty darn well in the biggest game of his life and one of the biggest in Brewers' franchise history. For all the crap he got around here, it's about time he gets his due. I've mentioned times before that I know him a bit, but I think this is an unbiased post. He played a huge role tonight (granted the game is not over, but he did his job and then some). I'm happy we didn't trade him for a prospect or cut him http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif