Designated Lineup Thread - Kendall Batting 9th?; Lack of Left-Handed Hitters SOLVDD (#203); Hall To Bat 5th, Hart 6th (#216)

[1992casey]

gregmag, I've heard that #4 is the guy who leads off more innings than anyone other than the leadoff hitter, but the point is still that the #5 guy should be a good hitter and Ned doesn't respect that. It's almost as if #5 is an afterthought.

[molitor fan]

but the point is still that the #5 guy should be a good hitter and Ned doesn't respect that. It's almost as if #5 is an afterthought.

 

I do not understand this comment. Over the last three seasons, in 315 at bats in the 5 spot, Hall has had 33 doubles and 12 home runs, with a .292 batting average, and slightly over a .850 OPS.

[TooLiveBrew]

That has basically been Yost's strategy from the get go, manage to how he hopes things will happen.

This is the #1 thing wrong with Ned Yost the manager. Almost literally all of my beefs with him can be traced to this.

[1992casey]

but the point is still that the #5 guy should be a good hitter and Ned doesn't respect that. It's almost as if #5 is an afterthought.

 

I do not understand this comment. Over the last three seasons, in 315 at bats in the 5 spot, Hall has had 33 doubles and 12 home runs, with a .292 batting average, and slightly over a .850 OPS.

I'd say that my disdain for Estrada and Clark being among those who've occupied #5 probably spilled over into my thoughts about Hall. If one really wanted to be fair, s/he could probably justify fairly similar OPS projections for Corey and Billy.

 

Still, I think you get a better OBP out of Corey, and you also get a younger player with more potential to grow. I think Hall will regress toward his mean this year, but using recent performance as another tie-breaker wouldn't seem to be out of line.

 

I wouldn't have used Hall's stats confined to the #5 spot, though. The sample's too small. Heck, you can make a similar case for him using his overall stats, anyway.

[ozzybourne]

corey hart gets the edge over hall right now and should be batting 5th.

 

and ADD THIS IN to this argument--hart has not had his career year yet, and bill hall may have already had his. hart is on the upswing and hall seems to have leveled off. yes, the yost questioning has started

[pmg4]

That has basically been Yost's strategy from the get go, mange to how he hopes things will happen.

Question: if things go as Yost hopes, do you give him credit?

 

[endaround]

Thats like giving credit to the guy who puts his entire savings in lottery tickets and manages to win.

[brewjihad]

The problem I have with the Hall situation is that Ned's reasoning was that he wanted to "play the hot hand", and that Corey might be batting there at some point anyway. First of all, Hall didn't exactly have a stellar spring training. The other problem with that arguement is the fact that his whole strategy this year is supposed to be "continuity" and not changing things all the time (the reason he is planning on hitting Gwynn second). Then he goes back and hits Hall fifth and says it is subject to change.

 

Positive thing though- I guess this means he's not going to be benching Billy for Gross anytime soon.

[rluzinski]

Is it already confirmed that Gwynn will be batting 2nd?

[JohnBriggs12]

I still don't understand flip flopping Braun and Fielder when both were so productive in that order last year. Now they make Braun's job even tougher by protecting him with Hall instead of Hart? Not to mention how well Hart did when he finally settled in the 5 spot.

 

Yost gets these goofy ideas from somewhere but they sure aren't from a stat sheet.

[Ennder]

The Braun and Fielder swap makes complete sense so I have no problem at all with it, if one of them needs protection it will be the lefty not the righty.

 

I don't really get Hall batting 5th and Hart 6th but I'm willing to bet it is fluid and won't last the entire season so not going to lose sleep over it. Hart should be batting #2 at least until Cameron comes back and Gwynn should be batting in the bottom of the order where he will cause the least amount of damage.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Is it already confirmed that Gwynn will be batting 2nd?

Yes.

 

http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/03/30/no-surprises-in-final-cuts.aspx

[rluzinski]

Is it already confirmed that Gwynn will be batting 2nd?

 

Yes.

 

A projected lineup isn't a confirmation. That appears to be Haudricourt's best guess. I assume that's how it will play out but I wanted to know if it was official.

 

The idea of Gwynn batting 2nd and Hart 6th in the same lineup seems pretty stupid to me.

[rluzinski]

Now that it's official, I'd like to take a moment to question the logic of one Yost's lineup decisions. I'm not a big fan of Gwynn even starting but that decision is at least defendable, primarily because of the defensive upgrade he represents. What's not defendable is batting him 2nd. Even is we pretend that power is completely irrelevant in the two hole (which is not true), Yost probably shouldn't be expecting much from Gwynn in the OBP department either. We all know that Gwynn has trouble even getting the ball out of the infielder and the highest projected OBP I've seen for Gwynn is .331. If that holds true, there's a good chance that his OBP will be lower than any other starter. Couple that with the fact that the only starter he has any chance of outslugging is Kendell, it's clear that Gwynn will be the 7th or 8th best hitter in the lineup on opening day.

 

The only real offensive value Gwynn really has in in the stolen base department. Of course, Yost didn't want to bat Braun in front of Fielder, since he (rightfully) doesn't want to attempt a stolen base with Fielder batting. So his answer is to move Fielder to the 3 hole and have Gwynn bat before him!? How does that begin to make sense?

 

Even an optomistic projection for Gwynn for 2008 might be something like .280/.340/.380. He should be batting 7th and it's not even close, IMO.

[lukevan]

totally agree rluz. This makes no sense. Why not go with Hardy in the 2 hole?

[DrWood]

well, if you assume gwynn will get off to a great start like last season...

big assumption, but it's the only justification I see.

[Fatter than Joey]

yep -- I will pile on as well. I really do not see a good argument for batting Gwynn 2nd

[TerraceReserved]

My optimistic geuss is that they're gonna play him for these 25 games to get his stock up, and then trade him when Cameron is done witht the suspension. That being said, I still don't agree with him playing over Gross at all.

[lukevan]

I guess Yost wants everyone in their set lineup slots for when Cameron comes back? That's the only justification I can think of and it's not a good one. Plus Gwynn can bunt Weeks over to 2nd in the first inning so that when Fielder or Braun hits a homerun Weeks won't have to run as far.

[endaround]

I really thought Yost wouldn't be foolish enough to bat his only two LHers back to back. I really never thought I'd overestimate Yost.

[rluzinski]

I really thought Yost wouldn't be foolish enough to bat his only two LHers back to back. I really never thought I'd overestimate Yost.

 

Heck, I forgot to even consider that, which REALLY makes Yost look foolish. He could mitigate the situation somewhat by taking Gwynn out any time a lefty is called in to face him but you just KNOW Yost isn't going to do that. Of course, anytime he sets up one of his players to fail, Yost will just casually explain that even though the move/nonmove lost the game, it was worth it to "teach the kid how to handle pressure situations."

 

I know, I know. The season hasn't started yet....

[Fatter than Joey]

My optimistic geuss is that they're gonna play him for these 25 games to get his stock up

 

I'm "ok" with Gwynn starting -- like Russ said, that's defendable.

 

My beef is that once you have him in the lineup -- why 2nd?

 

I know, I know. The season hasn't started yet....

 

The FNY season has begun.

[logan82]

My optimistic geuss is that they're gonna play him for these 25 games to get his stock up, and then trade him when Cameron is done witht the suspension.

That being said, I still don't agree with him playing over Gross at all.

 

You can get his stock up playing him in the 7 hole as well. Considering you probably don't want him stealing ahead of Fielder and stealing bases is probably where Gwynn has his most value as an offensive player, it would make much more sense to bat him lower in the lineup. If he bats well it wouldn't make much difference where in the order he bats.

[endaround]

I really thought Yost wouldn't be foolish enough to bat his only two LHers back to back. I really never thought I'd overestimate Yost.

 

Heck, I forgot to even consider that, which REALLY makes Yost look foolish. He could mitigate the situation somewhat by taking Gwynn out any time a lefty is called in to face him but you just KNOW Yost isn't going to do that. Of course, anytime he sets up one of his players to fail, Yost will just casually explain that even though the move/nonmove lost the game, it was worth it to "teach the kid how to handle pressure situations."

 

I know, I know. The season hasn't started yet....

Of course when he takes Gwynn out it would be for Kapler so I'm not sure it would really be worth it anyway. Prince is going to have to deal with LOOGYs, no reason to make Gwynn do so as well.

 

[rluzinski]

Of course when he takes Gwynn out it would be for Kapler so I'm not sure it would really be worth it anyway. Prince is going to have to deal with LOOGYs, no reason to make Gwynn do so as well.

 

No chance of Dillon, huh? Saved for the infield?

 

Batting Gwynn 2nd also makes batting Kendell 9th almost a complete waste of time.