Designated Lineup Thread - Kendall Batting 9th?; Lack of Left-Handed Hitters SOLVDD (#203); Hall To Bat 5th, Hart 6th (#216)

[adambr2]

Well folks, according to the JSOnline blog, our hero is now considering a lineup that would feature the pitcher batting 8th, Kendall batting 9th, and Braun batting 2nd. No idea who would be batting 3rd and 4th, I'm sure one of them would be Prince. But then if he has Prince bat 3rd after Braun, that takes away Braun's stolen base opportunities, which is what Yost was trying to avoid.

 

At least he's thinking, which I hope he can do more of during games this season.

 

 

------------------------------

(added tag --1992)

 

(thread merged with "Why mess with Braun third, Prince fourth?"; see reply #93 --1992)

[1992casey]

Here's the link:

 

Kendall hitting ninth? Possibly...

 

I'm going to make this the lineup thread in the Designated Threads List.

[1992casey]

My only concern about this is that if Braun is pulled from the heart of the order, the fifth spot might not get the hitter it deserves. I love the idea of a good hitter batting second, though.

[bullox]

Interesting.

 

Weeks

Braun

Fielder

Hart

Hall

Cameron

Hardy

Pitcher

Kendall

[1992casey]

I'd kind of hope that if Ned has read up on the idea of the ninth spot being a higher leverage spot than the eighth, he's also read up on the fifth spot being more important than the third.

 

Using bullox's lineup as a base, I'd hit Fielder fourth and Hart fifth. I don't know who I'd bat third under a Braun-in-the-two-hole scenario, though.

[Blindcheck]

I like some of the things that comes with the batter hitting 8th....but there are some negatives as the pitcher and the decision to pull a starting pitcher might come up an inning earlier on some occassions.

 

I do like having the opportunity to have a guy with a better On base percentage ahead of the top of the order, though.

[brettac1]

When Gallardo is pitching, Kendall should hit 9th because he would probably be the 9th best hitter in the lineup.

[sbrylski]

YEAH! That is the correct answer, Nedly!

 

The point of hitting the pitcher 8th is to attempt to get more baserunners out there for your 1 and 2 hitters, as the pitcher is almost never on base. The downside of this is losing RBI opportunities to drive in the 6th and 7th hitters.

 

However, out situation seems to minimize the downside while maximizing the benefit. Our 6 and 7 hitters should be Hall and Hardy (or maybe Cameron) - not exactly OBP guys for the 8th guy to drive in. And Jason Kendall has his horrible SLG and "eh" batting average - not the guy to drive them in. But he's got that solid OBP, so placing him 9th will actually make a pretty good impact on getting some baserunners for Weeks to drive in.

 

I'm very happy they are considering this, I thought never in a million years they would.

 

And Braun 2nd! That's awesome, getting one of our top two hitters in a spot where we should have one of our top two hitters.

[sbrylski]

I'd kind of hope that if Ned has read up on the idea of the ninth spot being a higher leverage spot than the eighth, he's also read up on the fifth spot being more important than the third.

 

Using bullox's lineup as a base, I'd hit Fielder fourth and Hart fifth. I don't know who I'd bat third under a Braun-in-the-two-hole scenario, though.

Agreed:

 

Weeks

Braun

Cameron

Fielder

Hart

Hall

Hardy

Pitcher

Kendall

 

With Hall/Hardy/Cameron being interchangable.

 

[Weeks4MVP]

When Gallardo is pitching, I would just go right ahead and pencil him in the 3 spot.

[adambr2]

What about Hardy batting 3rd?

 

1 - Weeks

2 - Braun

3 - Hardy

4 - Prince

5 - Hart

6 - Hall

7 - Cameron

8 - Pitcher

9 - Kendall

 

Hart is the ideal #5 hitter IMO. Hardy would see some good pitches to hit sandwiched between Braun and Fielder, and Braun could still be running not being followed by Fielder. Weeks and Braun get some additional RBI opportunities which will take advantage of the HR power that both have.

[JohnBriggs12]

Actually Braun 2nd isn't a bad idea. They really don't have an ideal number 2 hitter anyway and batting in that spot (ahead of Fielder in the 3 spot) not only assures your two best hitters bat in the first inning, it might help Braun develop a bit more patience which is the only real area where he's human.

 

Further, say Braun gets on with one out instead of two ahead of Fielder. He could get an opportunity to run if Fielder makes the 2nd out.

 

I'm not reel keen on Kendall hitting 9th though I could see it with Gallardo pitching.

[adambr2]

Would it make Sheets the worst #8 hitter in the history of a professional lineup?? http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[1992casey]

With Hall/Hardy/Cameron being interchangable.

Yeah, they're very much a horse apiece at this point.

 

To start the season, I think I'd do Gross batting 3rd on the days he plays, then move Hardy to third vs. lefties. Gabe's platoon partner can replace J.J. in the seventh spot vs. lefties.

[TooLiveBrew]

Hearing about this from Ned shocks me... in a good way. I smell Ted Simmons's influence...

[twobrewers]

I don't like the idea of Hall 2nd. My vote would be for Hardy.

 

If we want to give Braun more chances to run, Hall has too many swings and misses for my taste.

 

Hardy doesn't strike out as much. Has a decent OBP. Has some pop to drive in Braun. And would be able to execute a hit and run.

 

(Cameron might be just as well, but I would prefer to start with Hardy since Cameron is going to miss the first 20 games. I don't want to have to "tinker" with the heart of the order to adjust for him)

[sbrylski]

Hearing about this from Ned shocks me... in a good way. I smell Ted Simmons's influence...

Simba is a god.

[Ennder]

Against lefties I think Hardy is a great bat to have in the top of the lineup, against righties not so much.

[brewtank34]

I would hit Cameron in the #3 spot as Braun would see better pitches in front of Cameron instead of Hardy.

For the first 25 games though, to get Hardy off to a good start, sure.....hit Hardy in the #3. Then again, for the first 25 games, anyone who hits in front of Fielder is going to get off to a good start. Maybe for that reason, you hit Hall in the #3 for the first 25 games......

Nontheless, this is an interesting idea that Management is pondering. It's definitely worth a look at. Isn't that what ST is all about????

[ozzybourne]

the question was --should the pitcher bat 8th with kendall 9th?

 

if this is such a creative strategy, why hasn't it been employed more often? answer--because it is stupid. perhaps larusso, in the last 30-40 years of mlb did it for part of one season, did it for a while.

 

word to ned--stop thinking so much. if i thought he was scary before, but this puts yost on another planet. planet 'way out there'.

[sbrylski]

if this is such a creative strategy, why hasn't it been employed more often? answer--because it is stupid.

 

I disagree. It hasn't been employed more often because on the surface its counter-intuitive. However, there is a logical explaination for why it would be beneficial, as well as statistical studies supporting it. (Some say you could even bat the pitcher in the 7th spot under the right circumstances.) You should understand the theory before you dismiss it as stupid.

[logan82]

Against lefties I think Hardy is a great bat to have in the top of the lineup, against righties not so much.

Could say the same for Hall.

 

Batting a pitcher 8th instead of 9th makes very little difference. In fact unless you are doing something really crazy like batting a pitcher leadoff and your best hitter 7-9 I doubt you would see much difference in wins at the end of the year.

[ozzybourne]

if this is such a creative strategy, why hasn't it been employed more often? answer--because it is stupid.

 

I disagree. It hasn't been employed more often because on the surface its counter-intuitive. However, there is a logical explaination for why it would be beneficial, as well as statistical studies supporting it. (Some say you could even bat the pitcher in the 7th spot under the right circumstances.) You should understand the theory before you dismiss it as stupid.

again-- i must believe that with all the money at stake for winning in mlb, and all the high priced talent in front offices assigned to evaluate almost every situation, if this was such a logical thing to do, it would be employed on a more regular basis. that is why it is a stupid theory--yes imho, more importantly in the judgement of the proffessionals who run mlb.

[logan82]

ozzybourne wrote:

again-- i must believe that with all the money at stake for winning in mlb, and all the high priced talent in front offices assigned to evaluate almost every situation, if this was such a logical thing to do, it would be employed on a more regular basis. that is why it is a stupid theory--yes imho, more importantly in the judgement of the proffessionals who run mlb.

These "professionals" also use their best reliever in the lowest leverage situations so that arguement doesn't hold much water.

[1992casey]

Against lefties I think Hardy is a great bat to have in the top of the lineup, against righties not so much.

You could insert Hall or Cameron into that sentence just as easily. I see logan3825 already inserted Hall's name. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

You should understand the theory before you dismiss it as stupid.

Jim Powell called the concept stupid on WTMJ a couple nights ago. However, in fairness, it should be noted that this was mentioned as an aside without getting into the theory behind it.

 

I feel good in suggesting that the #5 hitter should be better than the #3 hitter. As far as the pitcher batting #8, let's just say I have an open mind.