Melvin on Rottino: "Right now, he's our best catching prospect"

[logan82]

Brian and Bill during the game. That's what Simmons told them.

[twobrewers]

Two thoughts on "He's our best catching prospect"

 

1. That was meant as a shot to Salome. Get your act together.

 

2. It was a compliment to Rottino. "Sorry we have to send you to AAA, but we are at least going to give you a chance to be a big league player someday. Keep your head up"

 

I can't imagine (Ceiling wise at least) that Lucroy and Salome aren't better prospects in Melvin's eyes.

[pogokat]

guess ted simmons needs a new watch...

[igor67]

With Lucroy he looks promising, but the only players that flameout as fast as pitchers are A ball catchers. In regards to Salome with Melvin the parser of words he could have been not counting Angel merely because he was suspended.

[logan82]

pogokat[/b]]guess ted simmons needs a new watch...

Maybe. I went back and it was the game from 3/16. In the bottom of the third inning Bill said he was talking to Simmons earlier in the week and Simmons said Rottino was around 1.9-1.85. MLB catchers are around 2 on average and Benji Molina and Pudge are around the 1.85 range according to Bill. Unfortunately this is the only information I have to go off of.

[Fatter than Joey]

Pudge today may not be as fast as he once was.

[alskntwnsfn]

Vinny's got a strong arm and quick feet. He's got the tools, and he's only been catching full time since this winter. He's thrown some guys out this spring. He can block pitches in the dirt, and as for calling a game - the pitching coach can do that from the bench. Plus, they go over hitters before the game, so the pitcher and catcher have an idea or what they want to do with each hitter.

 

The question is can he stop the other team's running game? And can he hit? If he's in the 1.9 range, then the answers are "yes" and "better than Kendall."

[Ayt]

It was always thought he would never be a full time player behind the plate, rather a utility player that could play behind the plate. But if he's there number one catcher at nashvile and full time, even if he doesn't put up popping numbers like our other players (braun, fielder, hart etc), catchers don't hit really. .so if he can provide adequate to above adequate defense and at least hit .270ish with a few homers, he could be our #1 catcher in 1-2 years if they feel he's ready for that, and with the potential upside since he's young.

He turns 28 in a couple weeks. He definitively isn't young.

 

[ILuvDaBush]

I would imagine it could also be construed as, "Without the Grand Salome in our organization because of his suspension, Rottino is our de facto best catching prospect," though I don't know how he would be better than Lucroy. But the Salome is the guy to watch this year, and if it was meant as a challenge to him, then I hope he takes it as such and outproduces even my lofty expectations for him.

[logan82]

I would imagine it could also be construed as, "Without the Grand Salome in our organization because of his suspension, Rottino is our de facto best catching prospect," though I don't know how he would be better than Lucroy. But the Salome is the guy to watch this year, and if it was meant as a challenge to him, then I hope he takes it as such and outproduces even my lofty expectations for him.

I am guessing he means closest to the majors. The other guys haven't even been to AAA yet, unless I am mistaken.

[Blazer25]

Maybe. I went back and it was the game from 3/16. In the bottom of the third inning Bill said he was talking to Simmons earlier in the week and Simmons said Rottino was around 1.9-1.85. MLB catchers are around 2 on average and Benji Molina and Pudge are around the 1.85 range according to Bill. Unfortunately this is the only information I have to go off of.

Logan,

 

Not calling you out but here is what I know:

 

Pudge in his prime was a 1.7- 1.75 thrower. He has a very strong arm and very good feet. I'd guess if you put Pudge on a radar gun to 2b he'd be 87+ mph which is in the top 1%.

 

I have seen Vinny play the IF up close when he was in Beloit. He had an average arm if I was being generous from a strength standpoint. That means if you were to put him on a radar gun across the IF he'd be 87-88 mph or so. That's probably in the 45-50% of all MLB IFers. He probably had average feet for a 3B.

 

Now you have to remember that's standing up with all of your momentum into the throw. Catchers generate much less momentum and use less of their body and full armswing on their throws. We actually use 1.95 as MLB average when we look at our prospects but in reality there are some guys playing in the bigs right now that probably put the average around 2.00 or worse.

 

Now I've never seen Vinny catch in person so he might have amazing feet behind the plate but based on what I saw on the IF it's not likely.

 

Combine those two things and I assume Vinny throws closer to average than the 1.85 numbers Bill was throwing around. Still pretty good, and if he were able to produce at the plate like he's done in the minors he'd be a viable starter. Certainly better than many of the guys that teams run out there on a regular basis.

[Gopher74]

Exactly, Peavey, my reaction to that comment is more about Salome than anything else. Has he slipped that far in Melvin's eyes? That's the part that surprised me.

I think it's pretty obvious by "best" he meant "closest". Rottino is not a more talented backstop than Salome. I think people are reading waaay too much into this.

 

It was a "sorry we're sending ya down, but hey, now you can catch and you're our best catching prospect". I don't think it means anything for Salome.

[endaround]

I think people are too excited by Salome. He's a guy who has done ok so far in A ball. If he was anything but a catcher or SS he would look to have stalled.

[PeaveyFury]

Rottino is not a more talented backstop than Salome.

 

And I think that's exactly the point- is he calling Rottino the best because he's closest, or is he calling him the best because the organization is upset/disappointed/concerned/pissed about Salome's PED suspension or raising questions about the severity of the issue?

[brewjihad]

VINNY ROTTINO is hitting great and a great all around catcher with speed this guy is a gonna be the future hopefullly... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

[TheCrew07]

I think people are too excited by Salome. He's a guy who has done ok so far in A ball. If he was anything but a catcher or SS he would look to have stalled.

 

Stalled? Based on what? He's a catcher that hits like a corner outfielder. He was hurt 2 years ago (broken bone) and suspended last year. The suspension called his character into question some, but I'm personally more concerned about Jeffress than I am Salome. There are questions about his height as well, as he's only around 5' 7". He has a career BA > 300, career OBP > 350, and a career OPS > 800. He'll get AA time this year and we'll see if he's for real, but to say he would have stalled if not a catcher seems pretty baseless for someone who champions statistical analysis, when he's never trended negatively in his career. In fact I would say that he secondary stats point to him being a legitimate hitter more so than someone who would have stalled out.

 

Last year's stats

 

Career Stats

[endaround]

A 800 OPS as a 21 year old in High A is nice but it doesn't scream star. He has along way to go and he isn't going to get taller which still calls into question how much of his power can be sustained.

[TheCrew07]

I get the concerns about him as continues to climb the ladder, but I don't understand where you say he would have stalled. I could list 20 other current Brewer Minor Leaguers that have been far less impressive and have continued to be bumped up the chain. If you can hit, you'll make AA at least... to have stalled in A ball, well those guys couldn't hit a lick, and Salome's issues have been defensive in nature.

[TooLiveBrew]

VINNY ROTTINO is hitting great and a great all around catcher with speed this guy is a gonna be the future hopefullly... http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

 

 

 

Wow - this cannot go unnoticed! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

Also, Tommy Gyumm.

[logan82]

Blazer25 wrote:

Combine those two things and I assume Vinny throws closer to average than the 1.85 numbers Bill was throwing around. Still pretty good, and if he were able to produce at the plate like he's done in the minors he'd be a viable starter. Certainly better than many of the guys that teams run out there on a regular basis.

The thing is that Bill wasn't just throwing those numbers out there. He was reporting it as told to him by Ted Simmons. Untill some other information comes out, I am sorry, but I am going to go with that information over your assumption. Again I am not saying that you are wrong, just that I am going to go with the information from Simmons first. The names mentioned as comparables were Benji Molina and Pudge. They may just being generous. It woldn't be the first time.

[Mass Haas]

Nice article, link while active, text follows:

 

Rottino stays upbeat

BY PETER JACKEL

Racine Journal Times

Tuesday, March 25, 2008

Imagine being confined to the cramped quarters of a submarine, cruising the depths as you do your best to keep your superiors happy. Through it all, you know that so much is going on way there above the waves, but you just have no way of knowing what it is.

 

"Yeah, I would agree with that 100 percent," Vinny Rottino said when presented with that analogy. "I was kind of in the dark for the last couple years as far as what they wanted me to do, my role."

 

Rottino was still in the dark on Good Friday, when he was weight lifting at the Milwaukee Brewers' spring training complex in Maryvale, Ariz. He hadn't seen his name on the lineup card for the previous couple of days, spring training was drawing to a close and there was ample reason for the catching prospect to feel concerned about his future.

 

And then Brewers manager Ned Yost poked his head in the weight room with words that have numbed so many athletes fighting for jobs over the years.

 

"Hey, Vinny, we need to see you in the office," Yost said.

 

Rottino was an honor student at St. Catherine's High School and UW-La Crosse, but it hardly took a genius to assume what this was all about.

 

"I was kind of mad," he said. "That was my first reaction. When I was called into the office, I was like, 'OK, here we go again.' "

 

But this story is not about an inspired young athlete starting to be phased out of his dreams after so much effort, as you might expect. Instead, it's about a Major League organization validating this former undrafted free agent as a legitimate prospect and evaluating him as far more than just a cup-of-coffee type of guy down the road.

 

And when Rottino walked into a conference room and saw Yost, general manager Doug Melvin and assistant general manager Gord Ash, anger quickly made way for elation.

 

The Brewers genuinely want him, he was assured. And it could be sooner rather than later.

 

"What they said about me was actually great news," he said.

 

But it got better. Ted Simmons, Yost's new bench coach who was an eight-time All-Star catcher, had taken an interest in Rottino during spring training. And after the conference, Simmons made a point of pulling him aside.

 

"He said, 'You could look at this as the worst day of your life right now, but I assure you this is the best day of your life and the best day of your career,' " Rottino said. "He said, 'You're going to catch every day in the big leagues very soon.' "

 

Will that come to pass or will it play out as just another broken promise in the cold, hard world of professional sports? Time will tell, but Melvin was quoted as saying after Rottino's demotion that he considered him to be the top catching prospect in the Brewers' organization.

 

When reached for this story, Melvin didn't appear to back down from that bold statement.

 

"Well, he's close to the big leagues and we're going to let him catch on a regular basis to let him learn a little bit more about the position," Melvin said. "He's made great strides at that position and, while we know he can play first and the outfield, he's in agreement, too, that he would like to learn to catch and try to get to the big leagues.

 

"You look around in baseball and catching is a very weak position all through the game. So we've decided to continue to work with Vinny and we think he's more than just a 35-game-type catcher.

 

"So if he can grasp the defensive side of it and working with pitchers, we feel we potentially have a guy who could be more than just a part-time catcher."

 

Legendary Brewers broadcaster Bob Uecker, a former catcher with the Milwaukee Braves, spoke with enthusiasm about Rottino during the Brewers' radio broadcast Saturday.

 

"He does everything adequately already and he's only going to get better," Uecker said.

 

What's most encouring is that, for the first time, Rottino has a defined role with the Brewers. Instead of the somewhat ambiguous role of a utility man that was supposed to represent his only shot to the major leagues, Rottino is now a man with a position and a man with a future.

 

"From what they told me, I do all the fundamentals really well," said Rottino, who turns 28 April 7. "I've gotten really smooth at receiving, I've gotten to be a very good blocker with a lot of hard work and sweat and throwing … that's why they made me a catcher in the first place because I have a good release.

 

"The game experience is really all I need at this point."

 

Offensively, Rottino tailed off at the end of spring training with finish with a .241 batting average, two doubles, one triple, one home run and five RBIs. But he feels his bat will come along, as well, in his new role.

 

Yogi Berra once said, "How can you think and hit at the same time?" And Rottino feels the same way.

 

"I was actually hitting the ball pretty hard and having some good at-bats the first few weeks and then I just wasn't swinging the bat that well," he said. "I think I was hitting close to .300 and then I had an 0-for-4 game. So with only 20 at-bats, that will obviously hurt your batting average.

 

"But when I'm catching, I just feel that I hit better, for some reason. When I'm playing other positions, sometimes I think too much about hitting. Well, when you're catching, there's no time to think about hitting."

 

So for the immediate future, Rottino will report back to the Brewers' Class AAA farm affiliate in Nashville and wait for a phone call. Considering Brewers' starting catcher Jason Kendall will be 34 in June and that potential backups Eric Munson and Mike Rivera are hardly established major league players, Rottino might not have a long wait.

 

And while he's waiting, he will finally be at peace.

 

"I'm in the light," he said. "I'm not in the dark anymore with my career."

[sheetskout]

Take a look at major league catchers, outside the top 5 in the game especially. Vinny can outhit most of them, if he can improve his defense and game calling, there's no reason he could not be a starter.

I would agree with that. Outside of Martin, Martinez, McCann, Posada, Mauer and Johjima I think Vinny could hang with any other catchers at the plate.

 

I played with Rottino and have never played against him when he was behind the plate. Refining your game calling skills, picking up the nuances of catching, and keeping your bat steady is easier said than done. The above mentioned would blow Rottino out of the water for a full season behind the plate.

 

I think it's very very easy to forget how good even the most average major league regulars are.

[Gopher74]

A 800 OPS as a 21 year old in High A is nice but it doesn't scream star. He has along way to go and he isn't going to get taller which still calls into question how much of his power can be sustained.

It also doesn't scream that he's stalled. And he is a catcher. You can't say, "if he wasn't a catcher, he wouldn't look as good". He is a catcher. That's the entire point. Offensive expectations out of that spot are less than other spots, and Salome is more than meeting those expectations.

 

And if he can hit the ball hard at 5'7 in A ball, he can do it in AA, AAA, or the big leagues. He's not going to lose power because he's short.

 

[Gopher74]

The thing is that Bill wasn't just throwing those numbers out there. He was reporting it as told to him by Ted Simmons. Untill some other information comes out, I am sorry, but I am going to go with that information over your assumption.

Yea, I'd have to agree. What Ted Simmons has to say on the subject means more than what someone who's seen him play an IF position and doesn't believe that what he did there means he could reach those numbers. That's far from an exact science.

 

I think there's some value in Blazers analysis, but I don't think that it's all that important as related to the catching position.