It's time againÂ?Name your ideal lineup (Designated Lineup Thread)

[1992casey]

By the way, Bob Brenly was critical of Ned Yost's lineup during the Cub telecast last night. He could not understand moving Fielder from 3rd to 4th and replacing him with a rookie in the number 3 spot. As much as I think Braun will be a stud, I think he's got a point. According to Brenly "you have to get Fielder up there as much as possible".

Because I've read recent sabermetric stuff de-emphasizing the importance of the #3 hitter, I'm fine with Braun in that spot. (The data suggest that #1, #2, #4, and #5 are more important.)

 

Given that Ned had Fielder hitting #3 over a span of several weeks, though, I don't think he's basing his decision to put Braun there on the new sabermetrics. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

[BrewCrewForever]

Im okay with Braun batting 3 and Fielder 4. Fielder is clearly the best power hitter we have and rbi machine. He should bat cleanup. Plus with the way he has hit all year it makes sense to put Braun 3 so he can maybe see more fastballs.

[logan82]

1)Hart

2)Hardy

3)Fielder

4)Braun

5)Menchkins

6)Hall

7)Estrada

8) Weeks

 

I originally had Weeks leading off, but I like Hart up there better. He dosen't seem to strike out as much as Weeks. I think there is a better chance of Hart driving in Weeks than Weeks driving in Hart. The order dosen't really matter to much to me except for Estrada batting 6-7, Hardy batting 2 and Fielder batting 3-4. That and Menchkins batting 5-6.

 

 

(Edit: fixed ezBoard emoticon bug --1992casey)

[gregmag]

For right now . . .

 

1. Weeks

2. Hardy

3. Fielder

4. Braun

5. Hall

6. Jenkins

7. Hart

8. Estrada

[mpepy05]

1) Weeks

2) Hart

3) hardy

4) fielder

5) braun

6) Jenks

7) estrada

8) hall

against righties

 

Or

 

against lefties

1) weeks

2) hall

3) hardy

4) fielder

5) braun

6) mench

7) estrada

8) hart

 

Or just have ned let it go to chance

 

1) draw straws

2) draw straws

3) draw straws

4) PRINCE

5) draw straws

6) ditto

7) ditto

8) ditto

[Ennder]

There have been a lot of complaints about the lineup changing too much but honestly its mostly because of injuries. Hart was out and then Weeks was hurt which messes things up. Hall has been sitting a little extra and being moved down because he's been struggling which is not a bad thing.

 

Weeks/Hart

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Estrada (yuck, should be Weeks/Hart here)

Jenkins/Mench

Weeks/Hart

Hall

Pitcher

 

That is the lineup I expect to see out there when everyone is playing. The majority of those players have been set in stone since Braun came up.

[jlau20]

OK I think I figured out why Ned uses so many different lineups.

 

He's used 37 different lineups so far this year.

 

The team's record in games in which a new lineup is used is 24-13, so based on that logic, if Ned uses a new lineup every day for the rest of the year we should have a pretty darn good season.

[Rightomac13]

1. Corey Hart RF

2. JJ Hardy SS

3. Ryan Braun 3B

4. Prince Fielder 1B

5. Rickie Weeks 2B

6. Johnny Estrada C

7. Bill Hall CF

8. Tony Gwynn LF

9. SP

[jlau20]

Just a few fun stats I discovered after using the better part of the last three hours putting together a spreadsheet on the lineups used so far this year...

 

- 37 different lineups used

- only 6 lineups used 3 or more times

- only 2 lineups used 5 or more times

 

- only 3 times this season has a lineup been used in back to back games (2-1 in games on the back end of a same lineup being used consecutively)

 

- no lineup has been used 3 or more consecutive games

 

- the lineup that has been used the most has been used 9 times

- that lineup is:

Weeks

Hardy

Fielder

Hall

Estrada

Mench

Hart

Graffanino

- that lineup averages 3.89 runs per game and 8.22 hits per game

 

- a different lineup was used in the first 7 games that Ryan Braun played in

 

- the lineup with 3 or more uses that puts up the most runs per game has 5.00 runs per game (Weeks, Hardy, Fielder, Hall, Mench, Hart, Miller, Graffanino) (5x), that lineup also puts up the most hits per game with 8.80

 

 

Of course, the problem with all of this is the extremely small sample sizes. But that's not my fault, I blame Ned.

[bork]

The last few games make me wonder if we'll be seeing this soon:

 

2B Weeks

SS Hardy

3B Braun

1B Fielder

RF Hart

LF Jenkins/Mench

C Estrada

CF Hall

P

[rotoherb]

I just checked out this thread for the first time and the most interesting thing that I take away from it is that just about every single suggested lineup has Hardy hitting second or third. I was surprised because personally I'd have him hitting seventh or eighth. Yeah, I know he got off to a hot start, but he's been terrible since then, and was pretty bad in his past two seasons. I totally hope I'm wrong and hope he goes on a tear soon, but I just can't get myself to believe it. I'm not sure I can let a hot month make me think he's something other than what he was before.

 

Between April 19th and May 14th Hardy was a complete superstar:

 

100 AB, 11 HR, .380/.421/.800

 

But for the rest of his career, including everything else this season he's:

 

645 AB .240/.304/.378

 

My gut tells me that in reality he's alot closer to his career numbers than the hot streak he put up for a month. He's better than when he was a rookie, but not nearly good enough to hit secnod, in my opinion. Heck, even with that hot streak his OBP is just .333 this season, not something I really want from my number two hitter. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong but I really don't think that he'll hit over .250 or .260 for the remainder of the season.

 

In any case, I'd still like to see Weeks lead off. Warts and all he still has shown that he can get on base at a .350 clip and he has good speed. I'd love to see Hart bat second and then Braun, Fielder, etc.

 

Just my opinion, and it appears that I'm in the minority, so maybe I'm way off base on something.

[lukevan]

Hardy is a good 2 hole hitter even without the power. He can go the other way as good as anyone on the team and he makes a lot of contact. I have a hard time believing the power he showed early in the year is just going to evaporate.

[DuWayne Steurer]

I don't put a lot of stock into lineup, but I do think there's a lot to be said about consistency. I wouldn't care what the lineup is, so long as for the most part, it would be the same day in and day out.

 

Moving guys around in the order isn't going to make them score more runs...that's not the answer. The problem is the team is just scuffling right now (Hardy, Hall, Jenks all not hitting), and sliding guys around isn't going to change that.

 

I think hitters can get comfortable hitting in certain spots, and moving them around every night can have a detrimental affect to a guy's mental approach. I know, a professional hitter should be able to perform his duties regardless of the number before his name on the lineup card, but these guys ain't robots.

 

 

All that hullabaloo being said.......here's my lineup (assuming everyone's healthy)

 

vs RH

 

1. Hart

2. Hardy

3. Braun

4. Fielder

5. Jenkins

6. Weeks

7. Hall

8. Estrada

 

vs LH

 

1. Hart

2. Hardy

3. Braun

4. Fielder

5. Hall

6. Weeks

7. Mench

8. Estrada

[rluzinski]

Yost uses so many lineups because he thinks all you need to do is try one for a game or two and see if it works. You'd think he would know better.

[dvoiss]

I am sick of all the lineup juggling.I think it's important to provide a young team with some stability. That isn't being done right now. I wonder how much Melvin's comments over the winter about Ned leaving Jenks in the lineup too long are playing into this. Is Ned concerned that Melvin might drop the axe because Ned isn't doing enough too get the team going? This certainly isn't the way he's done things in the past. Any way here's my lineup:

 

Hart

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Weeks

Jenks

Estrada

Hall

 

 

What happened to Hart batting leadoff was his .370 OBP getting too high? Leave him there for crying out loud.

If Hall heats up, move him up, but for now 8 is the best slot for him. I wouldn't complain if you switch around 5,6 ,& 7 but this is how I would prefer it to look.

[hauser42]

Yost uses so many lineups because he thinks all you need to do is try one for a game or two and see if it works. You'd think he would know better.

 

Rluz you are right. Problem Bobby Cox taught him how to mess things up. Cox does this more with his bullpen than anything. Early 90s Mike Stanton has 20 saves and doing a fine job and good ole Bobby decides to push him to setup guy.

 

The master has taught him to well to mess around with things.

[vacin8r]

its not neccessarily what id use, and its based entirely off of a small sample of a 60-odd game season, but i plugged in this years brewer stats into the lineup formula i use when i set lineups in video games and this is what i got:

rf hart

3b braun

1b fielder

ss hardy

lf jenkins/mench

2b weeks

c estrada

cf hall

 

obviously halls bad start and hardys good one has caused a bit of a strange lineup here, but i dont think ned has used it yet, so why not give it a try:P

-don

[1992casey]

As you say, it's not the method to use, and this doesn't mean I advocate everything in it, but all in all, it's not a bizarre lineup.

[logan82]

I guess I don't agree that Yost has purposly done a lot of lineup juggling. Hart was nicked up towards the end of April so Mench/Gross/Gwynn got some starts in right. Then Hart gets healthy and Braun gets called up. Now Weeks is hurt and he has to make changes again. I think once Weeks comes back you are going to see a pretty stable lineup except for days off and when Hall gets going.

[chadomac]

1 Hart RF

2 Hardy SS

3 Braun 3B

4 Fielder 1B

5 Jenkins LF

6 Hall CF

7 Weeks 2B

8 Estrada C

9 Pitcher

 

If Weeks would start hitting I'd prefer him 3rd and move Braun down to 5.

[Never Outhustled]

Quote:

---

its not neccessarily what id use, and its based entirely off of a small sample of a 60-odd game season, but i plugged in this years brewer stats into the lineup formula i use when i set lineups in video games and this is what i got:

---

 

Is that the lineup formula someone posted a link for us last year that we all got to play with? Any chance that could be added to the FAQ thread Casey 1992 started?

[1992casey]

I'd like to see someone like Russ scrutinize it a bit to make sure it's not misleading, but we're definitely open to any suggestions for the Major League Forum FAQ.

[tigerbrew]

1. Hart

2. Hardy

3. Braun

4. Fielder

5. Hall

6. Jenkins (vs RH) / Mench (vs LH)

7. Estrada

8. Weeks

9. P

 

Glad to see Hall finally laying off those tough outside pitches that's just off the zone, this should lead to less Ks and more BBs. Opposing teams know Hall's weakness has been his tendency to swing at those outside pitches that are a little too low or just off the plate, hopefully not anymore now. With Hall's power and newly improve plate discipline, he should be a good fit for the 5th spot.

 

Weeks' bat has been scuffling a bit, so I'd put him in the 8th spot temporarily. When Weeks' bat starts to heat up like it could, I would move Weeks up to 6th spot.

[rluzinski]

That lineup formula was pretty much junk, if we are talking about the same thing. The guy did regression analysis to find out how valuable each position was, based on what would essentially be the average lineup. For instance, since the average #2 hitter in the majors is a below average ML hitter, that might have the effect of undervaluing the power of a #1 hitter.

 

The whole thing was torn apart by guys a lot smarter than me, so it's not just my opinion. The tradational lineup is so close to the optimal lineup, in terms of run production, that you just aren't going to find big changes with any kind of reasonable lineup.

 

Haudricourt wrote this yesterday:

Quote:

---

After talking with general manager Doug Melvin, Yost said the decision was made not to send second baseman Rickie Weeks on a minor-league rehabilitation assignment once he is recovered from tendinitis in his right wrist. Instead, Weeks will return to the Brewers' lineup, probably in the leadoff spot.

---

 

I don't know if that part about Weeks returning to the leadoff spot is just conjecture on Haudricourt's part but I actually hope it's true. Even with Weeks struggling (as a result of injuries or otherwise), he's been able to keep a decent OBP despite only batting .245. Add 25 points to that average and you have a great OBP.

 

With Hardy's numbers coming down to something probably more realistic for him (still good numbers, don't get me wrong), I'd love to see Yost trot this lineup out against righties and just stick with it for a month or two:

 

Weeks 2B

Hart RF

Braun 3B

Fielder 1B

Hall CF

Jenkins RF

Hardy SS

Estrada C

 

I know some are scared to put Estrada 8th and lose out on some walks but I don't think the "free walks at #8" phenomena is nearly as large as people suggest. He'll obviously still get the intentional walks but he's expressed a desire to be more selective, so maybe batting 8th could be a good thing anyway.

 

Anyway, I think the above is a nice, balanced lineup with a whole lot of OBP at the #1 and #2 spot, not to mention some serious speed (no clogging the basepaths!). I think the lineup still affords some protection for Fielder as well, so he can't simply be intentionally walked so easily.

[Bruce Ciskie]

I'm with Russ, but I'd prefer that Weeks go into the seventh spot for a couple weeks after he comes back. I'll avoid use of the word "pressure", but I think it plays into my thinking. Let him come back and work a few quality ABs before you stick him in the leadoff spot again.

 

For now...

 

Hart rf

Hardy ss

Braun 3b

Fielder 1b

Hall cf

Menchkins lf

Estrada c

Counsenino 2b

Easy out p

 

This weekend, with three righties throwing for Minnesota...

 

Hart rf/dh

Hardy ss

Braun 3b

Fielder 1b

Hall cf

Jenkins lf

Estrada c

Counsell 2b

Gwynn rf/dh