It's time againÂ?Name your ideal lineup (Designated Lineup Thread)

[FVBrewerFan]

Now that Braun is up and you've seen around 50 plate appearances, what is your ideal line-up with the current roster? In thinking it through, the biggest problem I still have is the lead-off spot.

 

Hart/Gwynn

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Weeks

Jenkins/Mench

Hall

Estrada

Capuano (because of his power)

 

Hart is "working" for now in the lead-off spot. Significantly higher OBP than Weeks in the #1 slot. Unlike 99% of fellow BF members, I'm not convinced Gwynn can't be the guy one day soon.

 

I like Weeks in the 5th spot, at least for now. He's too much of a free swinger for the lead-off spot, and has been struggling a bit at the plate. I like putting him behind Prince, giving him more protetion than Estrada. Hall is another guy who could move up to 5th if he returns to form. (Some woud argue he HAS returned to form this year.)

 

Jenkins 6th vd lefties just seems to make sense. Vs lefties, I would move Hall up to 6th, Mench 7th.

 

I put Estrada 8th, which may raise the most eyebrows. I just don't like him at 5, too much potential for a DP and not capable of any type of situational hitting. Put him in front of the pitcher's spot, where he can just swing away- because he will anyhow.

 

 

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Let's use this as the designated lineup thread. See the post below.

--1992casey

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[BrewCrewForever]

Ideal lineup for me not mattering against RHP or LHP would be this:

 

1. Corey Hart- RF

2. JJ Hardy- SS

3. Ryan Braun- 3B

4. Prince Fielder- 1B

5. Rickie Weeks- 2B

6. Bill Hall- CF

7. Geoff Jenkins- LF

8. Johnny Estrada- C

9. Ben Sheets- P

 

Or if Weeks still in the lead-off spot Id go with this:

 

1. Rickie Weeks- 2B

2. JJ Hardy- SS

3. Ryan Braun- 3B

4. Prince Fielder- 1B

5. Geoff Jenkins- LF

6. Johnny Estrada- C

7. Bill Hall- CF

8. Corey Hart- RF

9. Ben Sheets- P

[Tbadder]

Hart/Gwynn

Weeks

Fielder

Hardy

Jenks/Mench

Braun

Hall

Estrada/Miller

Cappy

 

When Mench plays I'd drop him to seventh. Hall to fifth.

[BraunsBoyfriend]

1. Corey Hart- RF

2. JJ Hardy- SS

3. Ryan Braun- 3B

4. Prince Fielder- 1B

5. Rickie Weeks- 2B

6. Bill Hall- CF

7. Geoff Jenkins- LF

8. Johnny Estrada- C

9. Ben Sheets- P

[letsgored]

vs. RHP

 

1. Weeks

2. Hardy

3. Fielder

4. Braun

5. Jenkins

6. Hall

7. Estrada/Miller

8. Hart (Gross/Gwynn each 1 start out of every 6 RHP)

9. SP

 

vs. LHP

 

1. Weeks

2. Hardy

3. Fielder

4. Braun

5. Hall

6. Mench

7. Hart

8. Miller/Estrada

9. SP

[mikerollins]

Weeks

Hart

Hardy

Fielder

Estrada

Braun

Jenkins/Mench

Gross/Gwynn

Pitcher

[mikerollins]

Along the same lines, what does everyone want to see for the next 9 games (after the Cubs series) when we need a DH??

 

I personally hope Ned doesn't use the DH as a chance to get Graffanino and Counsell more AB's.

[BrewCrewForever]

I would hope that Gross and Mench would be the DH's we use.

[giffted1]

1. Hart

2. Weeks

3. Hardy

4. Fielder

5. Braun

6. Jenkins

7. Hall

8. Estrada

9. Capuano

 

Gwynn, Mench, and Gross get some starts from Hall and Jenkins.

[TCSM]

1. Cory Hart or Tony Gywnn Jr.

2. JJ Hardy

3. Ryan Braun

4. Prince Fielder

5. Johnny Estrada

6. Geoff Jenkins

7. Rickie Weeks

8. Bill Hall

9. Ruben Quevedo

[rluzinski]

I personally hope Ned doesn't use the DH as a chance to get Graffanino and Counsell more AB's.

 

I won't like it but it at all but it wouldn't surprise me to see Gwynn start in CF and Hall DHing when the Brewers are up against a righty. Hope I'm wrong.

 

What I'd like to see against a righty:

 

Hart RF

Gross DH

Hardy SS

Fielder 1B

Braun 3B

Jenkins LF

Hall CF

Estrada C

Counsell 2B

 

The irony is that I probably wouldn't mind Gwynn in the lineup against a lefty when a DH is needed. There's simply no extra RH bats available, so I'd at least take the defensive upgrade in CF. Maybe something like this:

 

Hart RF

Hardy SS

Braun 3B

Fielder 1B

Hall DH

Mench LF

Gwynn CF

Estrada C

Graffy 2B

 

I care more about the actual personnel than the exact order, really.

[BrewCrewForever]

I guess I agree wth Rluz maybe they will DH Hall as well. But I hope they use Gross and Mench as DH's mostly during the AL games coming up.

[adambr2]

I think it's going to be switched up a little bit. I don't personally think Mench and Jenkins are the best options every day as DH -- simply because there is a reason they are platooned, they are usually pretty weak against same-handed pitchers.

 

My predictions:

 

Gross will get a few "starts" as DH against RHP.

 

Gwynn will start a couple games for Hall in CF, and Hall will be the DH those days.

 

Maybe once or twice, Counsell may start at third and Graffy at 2nd, and Braun is the DH.

[bucksman4]

My ideal lineup:

 

1. Hart RF

2. Hardy SS

3. Braun 3B

4. Fielder 1B

5. Estrada C

6. Hall CF

7. Mench/Jenkins (strict platoon) LF

8. Weeks 2B

9. SP

[rluzinski]

Maybe once or twice, Counsell may start at third and Graffy at 2nd, and Braun is the DH.

 

Actually, that might be a better option against lefties. Counsell plays SS level defense at 3B. Regardless, the offense can't really be improved with a DH, when a lefty is pitching. Get on that, Melvin!

[1992casey]

This is a cool time for a general lineup thread because we haven't had one for a while. And i think FVBrewerfan recognized that with his timely title, " It's time again: Name your ideal line-up".

 

Keep in mind, however, that repeated lineup threads tend to be more annoying than useful. So let's use this thread as the designated lineup thread.

 

Also keep in mind that technically, we have had numerous recent lineup threads. They didn't start out that way, but they ended up that way.

 

BillScottCanRake and I opined about that in the Keep Brewerfan Beautiful thread.

 

Quoth 1992casey:

I've noticed that as soon as a batting order is posted to a thread, the thread stands an excellent chance of getting sidetracked, or in some cases, even hijacked. While the first batting order posted may be relevant to the discussion at hand, the responses tend to have more batting orders. As an example, a thread about Bill Hall can eventually become a thread debating where Hart or Gwynn should hit.

 

The ironic thing is that these batting orders are often posted as a message's pièce de résistance. The message will start with some good content relevant to the thread, then... Voila! Lookie here! You can have this batting order! I guess I find the part of the post without the batting order a lot more interesting.

Quoth BillScottCanRake:

I second that.

 

In my opinion, there have been way too many lineup posts lately that are completely unnecessary. Pretty much any thread involving a possible roster move of any sort will feature several posts with suggested lineups.

 

There are three threads on the first page of the ML forum that have lineups posted in them. I just don't see the necessity of repeatedly posting lineups.

As part of our current effort to keep Brewerfan beautiful, let's try to confine as much lineup discussion as possible to this thread.

[billyhallfan]

RHP:

Hart

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Jenkins

Weeks

Hall

Estrada

 

LHP:

Hart

Hardy

Braun

Fielder

Weeks

Mench

Hall

Estrada

[Oldcity]

I like most of the lineups posted here, but here's my version.

 

Against RHP:

 

1. Hart/Gross

2. Weeks

3. Hardy

4. Fielder

5. Hall/Gross

6.Jenkins

7. Braun

8. Estrada

 

Gross would get a couple starts a week subbing for Hart and Hall.

 

Against LHP:

 

1. Hart

2. Hardy

3. Fielder

4. Hall

5. Braun

6.Weeks

7. Mench/Jenkins

8.Estrada

 

Mainly I'm with Russ though. As long as the personnel is there the order is secondary. But please move Estrada out of the five-hole.

[Gobias Industries]

Ideal Lineup:

Corey Hart - RF

JJ Hardy - SS

Ryan Braun - 3B

Prince Fielder - 1B

Bill Hall - CF

Menchkins - LF

Rickie Weeks - 2B

Johnny Estrada - C (18 RBI's not getting it done in 5 hole)

Pitcher

If Rickie would be 100% healthy this year I would bat him leadoff, but his wrists will probably give him problems all year. Even with his poor average this year he still has a pretty good OBP. Wait until he starts hitting more and then move him up in the order.

 

Estrada- We all know he doesnt walk and that is something you usually want out of your 8 spot. But clearing the pitchers' spot is more of secondary goal. When Weeks gets on in front of Estrada with two outs he is more likely to score with the free swinging Estrada batting because he will be swinging even when the pitcher is trying to pitch around him. With Weeks in our lineup instead of Counsell or Graffanino, who else would even be an option to bat eighth?

[Lil Dummy]

"I won't like it but it at all but it wouldn't surprise me to see Gwynn start in CF and Hall DHing when the Brewers are up against a righty."

 

I'd be a tremendous fan of this option, if Hart needs a day off vs. a righty over that nine game stretch.

 

Man, Gwynn couldn't be more reviled here, just weird. I'd hate to think of how our "speed and defense" guy would be regarded if he didn't also have the highest OBP of any hitter on the team. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/frown.gif

[FVBrewerFan]

I apologize if I started a thread that doesn't have any value. I realize that posts in just about any thread will have elements of where player "x" should bat in the line-up.

 

I brought it up today since Braun is up and has enough plate appearances to start forming an opinion, plus we're 1/3 of the way through the season.

 

I try to follow the rules of the forum (both written and unwritten.)

[rluzinski]

I'd hate to think of how our "speed and defense" guy would be regarded if he didn't also have the highest OBP of any hitter on the team.

 

The reason some don't want Gwyn starting has been explained to death here over the last few months. I won't get into it here but the hints are "sample size" and "previous success". It's kind of like people suggesting Sheets was the third best pitcher on the team after a month of the season because he had the third best ERA among starters.

[Lil Dummy]

"The reason some don't want Gwyn starting has been explained to death here over the last few months. I won't get into it here but the hints are 'sample size' and 'previous success'."

 

Don't forget to find a way to sprinkle in a few "If this kid's last name were Smith, he'd still be in AA ball" comments. Yeah Russ, I'm familiar with the stock arguments, it's just disappointing that we're still hearing them. The obvious counter to the sample size argument is "what else does the guy have to do to earn the right to provide a bigger sample"? As for the 'previous success' argument, it would carry a lot more weight if Gwynn was late 20s, not 24 years old.

 

Listen, if the conversation is "should Gwynn start every game in right field and hit leadoff?", then I agree it's time for a reality check. And yeah, I think there was a brief window (after the Mets game where ToJu got on base four times, stole a base, and made the great throw to nail Wright at second base) when that was actually a topic of conversation. But I think the conversation has changed, and the anti-Gwynn rhetoric has not. If the board as a whole turns its nose up in disgust at the thought of Gwynn getting a start in center field for Hall against a right-handed pitcher, that's nuts. Just nuts.

 

Alright, sorry for the thread hijack.

[1992casey]

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I apologize if I started a thread that doesn't have any value. I realize that posts in just about any thread will have elements of where player "x" should bat in the line-up.

---

I thought I was clear that I felt starting this thread was just fine. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

As I mentioned above, we hadn't had a 'true' general lineup thread for a while. There've been times, though, where we've had issues with repeated general lineup threads.

 

I view this thread as cool because it presents us with the opportunity to consolidate the lineup talk that sidetracks Gwynn threads, Hall threads, Jenkins threads, etc. And it'll also take care of any issue of any inclination to start new lineup threads in the immediate future.

[geothite]

I haven't had any major complaints with Ned's lineups but one thing that makes me nuts is hitting Estrada fifth.

 

Let me run of the list of reason why this is a bad idea. He hits into to many double plays, he has zero plate discipline and he has killed a number of rallies the last month simply for these reasons.

 

Hit Hall or Jenkins there and Weeks or Hart behind them when he comes back and drop Estrada to 7th or 8th. I know why Ned hits Estrada as high as #5 (because he is switch hitter but the guy isn't a #5 hitter from either side of the plate)....

Hopefully when Rickie gets back Ned will realize it.