Capuano DL'd : Torn ligament in left elbow (reply #88); no surgery FOR NOW-try 3-4 weeks of rehab (reply #161); Tommy John surgery Thurs., May 16th (reply #192)

[logan82]

JohnBriggs12 wrote:

I recall getting hammered when I suggested non-tendering him, even though they had enough cheaper replacements already on their roster.

That's because nontendering him would have been a bad idea. Just because he got hurt doesn't mean nontendering him would ahve been a good idea. You can't predict an injury like this. The better idea was to try and keep as much pitcher depth as possible.

[brewjihad]

They would have been better off non-tendering him

You're suggesting they could have predicted he would get hurt?

They didn't know they were going to get no production, and they odds are he wouldn't have lost every game he pitched this year- and probably brought his ERA back down into the 4s.

[JJHardy7]

This stinks. I feel bad for Cappy. I really could care less about the "great debate" over who should be in the rotation. It's a long season and it would've all figured itself out. For those that are so upset about CV being in AAA relax. It's a long, long season and it really doesn't matter what the rotation is in April -- this injury proves that.

 

I wish Cappy the best and I also feel like we've seen the last of him with the Brewers. This is bad news. I'm wondering if it's somewhat possible to figure out when this injury happened?

[jlau20]

This sucks. Cappy is one of my favorite Brewers. It's really unfortunate though that he are without his services at all, whether or not he would have made the rotation or not. That and of course the trade value is completely gone as well. Wish him the best in getting back.

[logan82]

I think we might see him again, just not as a starter. I think we can cut his salary by more than 20%, but we have to nontender him after the season or something like that. The 20% if I am not mistaken is the most you can cut a player's salary by if you offer arbitration.

 

If his salary is $3.8M then we could offer him just over $3M by cutting his salary by 20%. That isn't to unreasonable for a reliever.

[strawbossisevil]

Don't Major League teams take out insurance on their players? I remember hearing that Ben Sheets has an insurance policy on his contract. Did we have one on Cappy's too? If so, I imagine this opens up about $3 Million to be used at the trade deadline. If not, I guess we just have to eat his paycheck and move on.

 

I feel terrible for Cappy, he was a solid pitcher, but had a lot of poor luck this last year. He'll most definitely be missed from our rotation.

 

I am excited to see what Parra can do in the rotation.

[AJAY]

I feel terrible for Capuano. One minute he is an all-star who is probably looking at having a nice career and making millions of dollars in his future. The next minute he can't win a game, he loses his starting spot, and now he needs surgery and is out for the year. He seems like such a class act too.

 

It's amazing how quickly life can change.

[PeaveyFury]

Don't Major League teams take out insurance on their players? I remember hearing that Ben Sheets has an insurance policy on his contract. Did we have one on Cappy's too?

 

Cappy's really working off a tender, and not a long-term, negotiated contract like Sheets, so I doubt it.

 

And even in Sheets' case, the things that have to happen for the insurance to kick in are pretty goofy, IIRC.

[logan82]

I hate to say it, but Cappy is going to get an injury prone label.

[JohnBriggs12]

They would have been better off non-tendering him

You're suggesting they could have predicted he would get hurt?

They didn't know they were going to get no production, and they odds are he wouldn't have lost every game he pitched this year- and probably brought his ERA back down into the 4s.

That would have been fine had they not had alternatives, but they had several guys just as capable of doing that for a lot less. When I posted that I wasn't anticipating he would get hurt, I just thought it wasn't worth a small market team nearly $4 million for a guy who wasn't better than the two minimum wage guys. As for the depth he added, they still have enough with 7 guys for 5 spots.

 

I would have had no problem with them non-tendering Vargas instead, but to tender both Vargas and Capuano made no sense to me. One yes, both was expensive overkill.

[TuesdaysWithRillo]

Is it THAT essential to have a lefty in the rotation? Why waste Parra's innings when we could go with the less fragile Villy? There is no need for me to give my input on this injury because everyone knows my stance.

[JJHardy7]

If his salary is $3.8M then we could offer him just over $3M by cutting his salary by 20%. That isn't to unreasonable for a reliever.

 

The problem with this is that this is assuming Capuano will be ready to pitch in the bigs in 2009. If he is having TJS, he won't be ready for 2009 and if he's signed by anyone it will be a very small amount since there are zero guarantees he'll make it to the bigs at any time in 2009.

[Blindcheck]

Well, be Glad, Doug didn't give away Vargas or Bush this offseason....The Brewers will need depth this year and I suspect the Brewers will use all 7 starters vying for the rotation and probably will use 3 or 4 more starters during the year as well that aren't being mentioned in the rotation debate.

 

Depth is vital.

[jimmyjeromehardy7]

I feel bad for Cappy and glad the Brewers have depth in the rotation.

 

Has anyone gone through 2 TJ's and pitched effectively the 2nd time back? It's a long road back and I wish Cappy the best.

[brewjihad]

That would have been fine had they not had alternatives, but they had several guys just as capable of doing that for a lot less. When I posted that I wasn't anticipating he would get hurt, I just thought it wasn't worth a small market team nearly $4 million for a guy who wasn't better than the two minimum wage guys. As for the depth he added, they still have enough with 7 guys for 5 spots.

In 2005, Capuano threw 219 innings, struck out 176, walked 91, had a 3.99 ERA, and won 18 games.

 

In 2006, he threw 221 innings, struck out 174, walked 47, had a 4.03 ERA and won 12 games.

 

I think that a small-market team like the Brewers couldn't have risked not resigning Cappy. You can't let a guy like him just walk away. $3 million just isn't that much.

 

 

I would have had no problem with them non-tendering Vargas instead, but to tender both Vargas and Capuano made no sense to me. One yes, both was expensive overkill.

Had you been the Brewers GM and non-tendered Vargas- and then found out that Cappy was out for the year- you would have 6 starters right now, including one whose innings must be limited. That's not a good situation to be in. You can't have too much depth.

[endaround]

There is likely insurance on Capuano's contract to some degree. In general they only pay off in a case like this where this miss the entire season.

 

The Brewers can pay him anything next year as long as they don't offer him arbitration.

 

EDIT: Oh and if Villy isn't on the team to start the season that means they gave McClung the long relief slot and I'm going to throw up in mouth.

[logan82]

endaround wrote:

The Brewers can pay him anything next year as long as they don't offer him arbitration.

Kind of what I thought. I think they did something like that with Kolb a few years back.

 

I don't think Villy makes it. Honestly I think he is better than McClung, but he will pitch more in the minors. I would rather have him pitching on a regular scheule for when a starter goes down(yes I said when) than once every two weeks.

[endaround]

My preference is Villy in the rotation until Yo returns and then either he or Parra back down with Vargas always in long relief. I just can't imagine having to count on McClung to give you 3-4 innings.

[BrewCrewForever]

This sucks, my thoughts go out to Cappy. Been one of my favorite Brewers since we traded for him. He has had a bad run of luck between the losing streak last season and now this. The guy is a good pitcher and a good guy overall. Also one hell of a competitor. I hope he can make a full recovery. I guess if there is any saving grace at all it is that Parra will get a shot to be our lefty in the rotation.

[twobrewers]

Had you been the Brewers GM and non-tendered Vargas- and then found out that Cappy was out for the year- you would have 6 starters right now, including one whose innings must be limited. That's not a good situation to be in. You can't have too much depth.

Thank you.

 

Capuano's injury is exactly why you tender both Vargas and Cappy. I have no idea how this injury helps the argument that we should have let one go. It only strengthens the notion that you always need quality starting pitching.

[valpocrewsader]

Dropping Vargas and finding out about Cappy's injury here would certainly have been an "oof" moment, but let's not exaggerate. A starting 6 of Sheets, Yo, Suppan, Bush, Villy, and Parra ... with decent spot-start options like ZachJack and Dillard in the wings ... is still probably better than 80% (?) of teams out there. And had it been Cappy that was dropped, we'd be passing around the hat to put another coat of bronze on the DM statue.

 

Cappy is my favorite Brewer, so this hurts on a number of levels. I still wouldn't mind them trading a Bush or Vargas, but now they almost certainly won't, which is maybe what stinks the most. The more veteran starters we have, the more likely it is that Parra and Villy are on the outside looking in rather than being set in the roles that make the big league club better. Blowing it in this regard is sorta the M.O. of the Brewers organization.

[bigredrobbo]

Regarding some of the comments that have arisen in Brewerland about this injury, I am seriously ashamed that some of these fanatics follow the same ballclub that I do...

 

Get better Cappy, you're a good guy who could use a break.

[don1481]

This is absolutely terrible news for Capuano. My heart goes out to him and hopefully he will recover.

 

That said, if Ned and Doug put Parra in the rotation and Villanueva in AAA, they're making the wrong decision. Keeping Parra's innings down means keeping him out of Milwaukee for part of the season. Putting him on a strict print count means that the bullpen gets taxed early in the season. And as we all saw in 2007, taxing the bullpen early does lead to problems down the road. We've gone down this path before: Put pitchers in the rotation that are more likely to go six-plus innings, not pitchers who cannot.

 

Yes - that means Vargas should not be in the rotation when Gallardo returns.

 

Sheets

Suppan

Gallardo

Villanueva

Bush

 

Put Vargas in long relief, just in case he's needed for the annual Ben Sheets freak DL stint. The guy does have value, just not as a full-time starter.

[brewjihad]

Sanity! Good post Don. I like the idea. It wouldn't be the worst if they had Parra on a normal leash early and then sent him donw to the minors towards the middle of the year for awhile... but I think your idea is much better- there is less potential for problems.

[don1481]

Sanity! Good post Don. I like the idea. It wouldn't be the worst if they had Parra on a normal leash early and then sent him donw to the minors towards the middle of the year for awhile... but I think your idea is much better- there is less potential for problems.

Thanks, brewjihad. Given Parra's injury history, the Brewers have to be extremely careful with how they increase his innings this year. I do not think using him out of the bullpen is the answer, either, especially after how we all saw Villanueva run out of gas 2/3 of the way through the season pitching so heavily out of the pen last year after never being used in that sort of role before. I can only imagine how much abuse Parra's arm would take if he was in the Brewers' pen...

Going back to my previous point... I think Bush has a better chance of going six-plus than Vargas. I also think that Villanueva has a better chance of going six-plus start in and start out over both Vargas and Parra, especially with the pitch count/inning limits that Parra should be under this year. Do we really want a repeat of the 2007 bullpen meltdown due to our starters not being able to go consistently six-plus? No thank you.

 

With Capuano out, the Brewers' rotation could skew all-righty for a large part of this season. I'm perfectly OK with that. Ned should be, too. It shouldn't really matter if your starting pitchers are right handed or left handed; if they can consistently go six-plus effective innings, then I think they should be in the rotation.