Build your Brewers Pitching Staff...

[twobrewers]

Let's face it...The Brewers are not going to construct their pitching staff based on talent. I know many poster will harp about the inequities, but the truth is, we need to consider play costs, options and inning limits.

For example, Capuano is more likely to make the MLB squad than Parra because Parra is younger, has options (that do not require his clearing waivers) and doesn't have an inning limit (which Parra will).

But lets assume you could throw all of that aside - how would you construct the Brewers pitching staff this year?

Starters

#1 Sheets

#2 Gallardo

#3 Parra

#4 Villanueva

#5 Suppan (Gets the nod over Bush, Capuano and Vargas based on his leadership and his bat)

 

Relief Pitchers

Stetter

Shouse

Riske

Mota

Turnbow

Torres

Gagne

[drezdn]

My starters are the same, but I'd keep Stetter in the minors for now, and take Bush or Cappy for long relief.

[Madtown Bomber]

See what I don't get is how we can be in a "win-now" mode but not keep our best arms in the majors. It makes no sense to me. I understand certain guys are out of options and that is tough but Doug Melvin needs to put the best team out there even if it means shuffling guys around or trading someone, or moving some guys to the pen.

 

Starters

#1 Sheets

#2 Gallardo

#3 Parra

#4 Villanueva

#5 Suppan

 

 

Relief Pitchers

Vargas

Shouse

Riske

Mota

Turnbow

Torres

Gagne

 

Trade or send down Bush or Cappy.

[Ennder]

You can't just send down Bush or Capuano without exposing them to waivers which I assume the team doesn't want to do.

[PlayerHader]

I thought Capuano had options left.

[Madtown Bomber]

You can't just send down Bush or Capuano without exposing them to waivers which I assume the team doesn't want to do.

 

So are you willing to keep them two on the roster at the risk of say losing an extra 3-5 games? I am not saying it will happen but it could. We need the best 5 out there.

[twobrewers]

You can't just send down Bush or Capuano without exposing them to waivers which I assume the team doesn't want to do.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Brewers tried to sqeak Bush and Capuano through waivers. If I am correct, they can option them down to AAA (Since I believe they both have options). In order to be sent to AAA, they would need to clear waivers.

 

If any team puts a claim in on either of them, however, the Brewers can pull them back - as long as they keep them on the 25 man roster all year.

 

So they could try to get them through - but it is almost pointless, since teams will surely try to claim them.

 

See what I don't get is how we can be in a "win-now" mode but not keep our best arms in the majors.

Well, for starters - it is more important that Parra can pitch in October than April. So you can't use all of his innings and eliminate him from possibly contributing in the post season.

[logan82]

See what I don't get is how we can be in a "win-now" mode but not keep our best arms in the majors.

Just wait till next year when we keep LaPorta in the minors while picking up Cameron's option.

[1992casey]

I think the whole point made in the lead post is that for the purposes of this thread, we should be constructing a pitching staff without worrying about innings limits, options, contract status, etc.

 

It's not whether or not the Brewers should be doing this. It's simply giving us the opportunity. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Gopher74]

Ace-Ben Sheets

Co-Ace-Yovani Gallardo

3-Manny Parra

4-Carlos Villanueva

5-Dave Bush

 

Bullpen

CL-Eric Gange

8th-David Riske

SU-Derrick Turnbow

7th-Salomon Torres

MRP-Guillero Mota

Loogy-Brian Shouse

LR-Dave Bush

Utility Man(Carlos Villanueva man)-Claudio Vargas

 

 

Man, I look at this and realize that I've got no Jeff Suppan, NOR do I have Chris Capuano. Who'd have thought that there would even be a scenario in which you could argue that those two weren't one of our top 13 pitchers 12 months ago?

 

But I honestly don't think that Suppan is one of our top 5 starters, and I think his lack of velocity and just stuff makes him a good bullpen option. AS for Cappy, I do like him, and you could always go with him as your number 5, Bush as your long man and Vargas out, but, and I say this knowing full well that I'm in the minority on this, but I believe he could be a very valuable bullpen arm for a couple reasons. I believe throwing an inning at a time he could improve his velocity to maybe 95-96 MPH. Couple that with a very good slider, and the fact that he seems to be at least above average if only slightly at stranding runners for most of his career and I think that he could be a very valuable reliever for us.

 

I guess then you could hope to get a pretty decent return to help re-stock out farm system, especially with reliever options by dealing Suppan and Capuano....

 

Now this is all fantasy. In the real world, I'd have a hard time shipping out both Cappy and Suppan, in which case, I'd have Suppan in the rotation over Bush, Bush as the long man over Vargas.

 

I'm still not sure what I'd do in order to go from 14 to 13, much less 12 if the Brewers were going to go the conventional route and break camp with a 12 man staff.

[1992casey]

Starters: Sheets, Gallardo, Parra, Villanueva, Suppan

 

Relievers: Gagne, Riske, Torres, Shouse, Capuano, Bush, Turnbow

 

Runners-up: Mota, Vargas

 

Note that I didn't necessarily rank-order the pitchers in each category.

[twobrewers]

Man, I look at this and realize that I've got no Jeff Suppan, NOR do I have Chris Capuano.

That was one of the things that got me too. I didn't realize it at first...but Suppan almost didn't make my cut. Like I said, only his bat and playoff experience gave him the edge over the other options.

 

The funny thing is, he played exactly as well as could reasonably be hoped for last year.

 

The Brewers have come a long way.

[yoshii8]

Starters

Sheets, Gallardo, Villanueva, Suppan, Parra

 

Relievers

Bush/Capuano, Vargas, Mota, Shouse, Riske, Torres, Turnbow, Gagne

 

I think one of Bush or Capuano will be traded, Vargas will succeed as a long reliever. If we go w/ the 13 man staff I think this is what we go with. I go w/ Parra as the #5 so he can limit his innings, otherwise he would be up there as the #4.

 

 

I believe this is one hell of a pitching staff, I can't wait until the season starts.

[Roscoe Chill]

Runners-up: Mota, Vargas

 

I think I just might agree with you. In which case means about $7 million...I'm not going to say wasted...but spent unnecessarily.

[1992casey]

Yeah, but twobrewers has excused us from worrying about that. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

 

I picked Suppan because I think he's likely to eat up more innings than Capuano or Bush.

[Gopher74]

That was one of the things that got me too. I didn't realize it at first...but Suppan almost didn't make my cut.

 

The funny thing is, he played exactly as well as could reasonably be hoped for last year.

 

The Brewers have come a long way.

They sure have. I don't agree with you 100 pct on your evaluation of Suppan from last year. I believe he could have performed much better through the middle part of the year. There was a good long stretch in there where he was just not good. I think if he would have been just average the middle part of the year then that statement would by a little more accurate in my opinion.

 

All the same, there was a time, not so long ago where Jeff Suppan would be our best pitcher. God I miss those teams of the early 2000'shttp://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/ohwell.gif

 

[Ennder]

Well not caring about most of what drives the decision I'd go with Sheets, Gallardo, Parra, whatever. Most likely I'd side with Villanueva because while I don't think he is anything special the odds of him being decent are higher than the rest since he hasn't proven he is just a #4 just yet. Bush, Capuano, Suppan are more or less the same guy and Vargas is a step behind them but probably has better stuff than any of them so more upside.

[logan82]

Starters Sheets, Gallardo, Parra, Bush, Capuano

Relievers Gagne, Turnbow, Torres, Villanueva, Riske, Shouse, Mota

 

Apologies to Stetter, Pena, Choate - I don't know anything about you guys.

 

I don't think Suppan would make the cut for me either. I am really turned off when the best that can be said about a pitcher is "innings eater." I sort of look at it as "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all." Except that they have to say something and something positive. They don't call Santana an innings eater. Not that Suppan is anywhere clsoe to that class, but I think if somebody said they thought Suppan was a good pitcher it would be the first time I had heard it.

[Gopher74]

Most likely I'd side with Villanueva because while I don't think he is anything special the odds of him being decent are higher than the rest since he hasn't proven he is just a #4 just yet. Bush, Capuano, Suppan are more or less the same guy and Vargas is a step behind them but probably has better stuff than any of them so more upside.

Perhaps, but I think that Villy's change up is underrated. It's not as sexy as a 96 MPH fastball, or a 12-6 curve that falls off the table, or a 88 MPH slider, but it can rally keep a pitcher off balance, and it can make a rather pedestrian fastball and average slider look much better than they truly are.

 

[jjfanec]

Mine would be Sheets, Yo, Parra, Villy, Suppan

Bullpen - Bush, Mota, Shouse, Torres, Turnbow, Riske, Gagne

 

I would be okay with keeping Bush or Cappy. Trade whomever you can get more for. I do remember that Suppan did finish last year strong with ERA's of 3.9 and 3.86 the last two months. His other numbers werent great but he did keep us in the race along with Yo. I like him as a back-end starter.

[twobrewers]

Apologies to Stetter, Pena, Choate - I don't know anything about you guys.

My last bullpen slot was between Stetter & Pena.

 

I went with Stetter for the LHP. But there is a pretty good chance Pena sees quite a bit of time with the Brewers if anyone falters.

 

(By the way, glad to see McClung hasn't made anyones list - yet)

[BrewCrewForever]

Starters

#1 Sheets

#2 Gallardo

#3 Parra

#4 Villanueva

#5 Suppan

 

 

Relief Pitchers

 

Capuano

Shouse

Riske

Mota

Turnbow

Torres

Gagne

 

Bush and Vargas both get traded for some decent value. Stetter in AAA.

[Trowekamp]

One way to look at this as well is who are the candidates to most improve versus fall off the table:

 

Most Improve:

 

1. Villy

2. Parray

3. Gallardo

4. Turnbow

5. Cappy

6. Vargas

7. Bush

 

Most Risky to Implode:

 

1. Shouse (Age)

2. Gagne (No Juice)

3. T-Bow (Head Case)

4. Suppan (Age)

5. Mota (Age)

6. Torres (No Juice)

7. Cappy (Head Case)

[1992casey]

I think the likelihood of improvement definitely falls within the parameters set in the lead post. So would the ability to eat innings. For instance, Parra's innings limit should be disregarded, but the number if innings he might pitch--based on his ability--would be a consideration.

 

I picked Suppan based on inning-eating because I felt he fell close enough to Capuano and Bush in total quality, but would be likely to produce more innings at that more or less similar level.

[brewjihad]

6. Torres (No Juice)

 

What are you referring to here? I'm not aware of Torres ever being linked to PEDs, if that's what you mean.

 

And I understand your point about Capuano- but I'm not sure if "head case" is the right way to describe it. Some better ways to say it might be "lost it", "unlucky", or "cursed".