Brewers have the 4th best bullpen in MLB

[ELCABALLO45]

at least to mlb.com

mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080312&content_id=2420924&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[trwi7]

I don't agree with that at all but if it came true that would be fantastic. http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[NYChez]

Do they mean the 4th best or the 4th most expensive?

[berniebrewer4life]

Aren't bullpens pretty much a crapshoot(outside of closer anyways) to figure out anyways?

[jjfanec]

Even as a Brewer fan I dont think I can agree with that. I look at the Twins who have Nathan and Neshek and wonder how we are ahead of them. Maybe they dont have depth but that is a great 8th and 9th inning. Our bullpen COULD be good but right now we have a ton of question marks in my mind.

[Ennder]

Neshek isn't anywhere close to as good as he pitched last year. The big problem with judging bullpens is ERA and WHIP are just terrible judges of talent over 70 IP so bullpen stats vary a lot from year to year.

 

I still don't think we have a top 5 bullpen because all of the pitchers are on the wrong side of 30 and Riske's strong stats were luck based last year. We have tons of mediocre bullpen arms which gives us great depth but it isn't dominating.

[DrWood]

maybe they felt guilty about not putting the brewers as one of the top 5 everyday lineups? The bullpen might end up as one of the top 5, but to do that at least a few guys with question marks have to perform well.

[fondybrewfan]

Well they might change their mind after realizing Turnbow was back to his usual self yesterday, walking 4 out of 5 guys in his simulated game. Hopefully just an aberration but is still concerns me due to his past history

[Gobias Industries]

We have a ton of arms that should be anywhere from average to very good. At the very least we shouldn't have to see a Spurling this year, which is awesome. We've never had the kind of depth we currently do between the big league club and Nashville.

Few things that need to go right for us to be a top 5 MLB bullpen IMO:

- Hopefully Torres can revert more to his 04-06 seasons than his off year in 07.

- I just looked at Mota's stats from last year and it looks like he had his 2nd best K:BB ratio, only trailing his phenomenal 2003 season. I'm guessing what killed him was the 8 HR's he gave up in a limited season (59 IP).

- If Turnbow is used right he should be fine. But that's a big if with Ned at the helm. Hopefully Simmons knows better and Ned takes his advice.

[Fatter than Joey]

My guess is that the Brewers probably have the 4th most recognizable BP in baseball, as evidenced by this quote:

 

"There are people with closing experience all over the place. "

 

Dan Kolb has closing experience...

[Ennder]

Torres 07 was just as good as 05-06, he just had a really bad strand rate. His K were up, BB were down and his FB% was the same as in 05. xERA in 05 was 4.33, 06 was 3.87, 07 was 3.82.

 

Now sometimes problems with strand rate is problems pitching from the stretch usually due to injures, so he could repeat that. However there is good reason to expect him to revert to previous form.

[splitterpfj]

I'm glad someone recognized the potential of this bullpen, because it is very real. It's true, the Brewers will have an excellent bullpen this season if the guys they've assembled stay healthy and pitch to their proven abilities.

 

Even so, a fair person has to point out the possibility of disappointment. A lot of these guys have high mileage on their arms, and most of them are coming off down, or at least inconsistent seasons, which is why they were available in the first place. I like the approach Doug Melvin took in assembling this bullpen, he did bring in several veterans who have had proven success in the big leagues, and he brought in enough of them to cushion the blow if one guy falls apart - that makes a lot of sense to me.

 

With the talent on hand, I do think the Brewers' bullpen will be better than most teams, making it possible to crack the top ten. Overall, with the scratches and dents these guys have, I expect at least one total flop, and most likely too many white knuckle evenings to rank them in the top five.

[And That]

If we end up with the 4th best bullpen in baseball, there's an excellent chance that we've made the playoffs.

[Tbadder]

I think what defines the greatness of a bullpen is options. If the manager has enough plausible choices at his disposal so that he can ride the hot hand, and pepper in those who are struggling until they find themselves, then that's what counts. It's been pointed out many times here that bullpens implode. Can't get away from that. But, as I said, if the manager isn't forced into the same old action (one guy is the 6th inning reliever, one guy takes the 7th inning, etc.) then he really has answers to his problems. I think the Brewers have that kind of bullpen--good depth, inning-eaters galore, three possible closers. If we don't get Yosted I look to the pen as a real strength.

 

P.S. fascinating stuff about strand rates

[DrWood]

If we end up with the 4th best bullpen in baseball, there's an excellent chance that we've made the playoffs.

I'd say the only way that doesn't happen is if the hitting somehow disappears (which could happen with injuries).

 

[RU Rah Rah]

What's weird is that the writer makes this comment in his description of the Jays' fifth-ranked pen: "Unless Accardo suffers from Gagne Disease and loses his edge in a setup role, he'd be a nasty eighth-inning guy."

[Gobias Industries]

What's weird is that the writer makes this comment in his description of the Jays' fifth-ranked pen: "Unless Accardo suffers from Gagne Disease and loses his edge in a setup role, he'd be a nasty eighth-inning guy."

I'm assuming the writer thinks that certain pitchers can only close games otherwise they lose their "edge". Using his logic, Gagne should be fine for us this year because he will only get save opportunities. Doesn't make much sense.

[MkeSouthSide]

Hi guys & gals - I'm happy to be joining you all here.

 

One thing that the writers overlooked, and something which actually will improve our BP over last year:

 

With 8 potential starters and only 5 spots in a rotation, we could have up to 3 starting-caliber pitchers who are in the BP at any given time. This should help out a great deal in middle & long relief. If a starter implodes and only lasts 4 innings, we might have the option of bringing in a guy from the BP for 4 or 5 innings, which would keep the late inning arms fresh.

[brewizard]

I had a vivid dream the other night. I was at the circus, and a drunken lion-tamer was whipping a lion. Suddenly, the lion attacked him, ripped his arm off, and got loose, heading for the crowd - and straight for me. I closed my eyes, expecting the worst, but when I opened my eyes, the lion was gone, and the circus had turned into Miller Park. The Brewers bullpen was in the same spot where the lion cage had been. The crazed lion had literally turned into the Bullpen.

 

Now, what does this all mean? Perhaps it means that the bullpen is going to be wild and uncontrollable. Perhaps it means that the bullpen will be powerful, and immune to bad management. Perhaps it means nothing at all.

 

As a side note, I did dream that the Challenger exploded the night before it happened. And I also dreamed that a massive tidal wave swept my friends off the beach three days before the Tsunami in Asia. Hmmm...

[sbrylski]

As a side note, I did dream that the Challenger exploded the night before it happened. And I also dreamed that a massive tidal wave swept my friends off the beach three days before the Tsunami in Asia. Hmmm...

 

Hence the avatar?

[TooLiveBrew]

With 8 potential starters and only 5 spots in a rotation, we could have up to 3 starting-caliber pitchers who are in the BP at any given time. This should help out a great deal in middle & long relief. If a starter implodes and only lasts 4 innings, we might have the option of bringing in a guy from the BP for 4 or 5 innings, which would keep the late inning arms fresh.

 

That's a good point, and welcome aboard! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Fatter than Joey]

Now, what does this all mean?

 

Yosted v. 2008

[dvoiss]

I think we are much stronger because of the depth we now have there are 3 or 4 guys (Torres, Riske, Turnbow, Mota?) who could pitch in a setup role with alot of other teams. It doesn't matter where you rank in March but it's nice that someone recognizes that we have improved. Let's see where we are on Labor Day.

[Madtown Bomber]

It doesn't matter how strong the bullpen is if our starters don't get out of the 5th inning. I think that was the major reason our bullpen faltered last year was because of guys having to pitch big innings that probably didn't deserve to be in the situations they were in.

[Gopher74]

Torres 07 was just as good as 05-06

2004-ERA 2.64 1.18 Whip

2005-ERA 2.78 1.18 Whip

2006-ERA 3.28 1.45 Whip

2007-ERA 5.47 1.40 Whip

 

I don't understand how you can possibly argue that the first three seasons in this are anywhere near as good as season number 4. You can explain why he wasn't as good, but the very simple basic fact is that his ERA was twice as bad in 07 as it was in 04 and 05. He gave up more runs. That's not as good.

 

This would be akin to saying that a hitter was just as good in two different seasons, one in which he hit .330, the other he hit .220 because his BABIP was .110 points difference and he was just unlucky. Well, lucky, unlucky, whatever the case may be, he wasn't as good.

 

I do understand you're saying there is reason to believe he will be better this year, and I absolutely agree with that. Just not the way you arrive at that.