Yankees-Rays fight in spring training

[Blancofan1]

if you didn't catch the highlights on Sportscenter it wasn't a that great big of a deal but I took a couple of things away from it.

1. Shelly Duncan and most of the yankees need to find some class. I understand the fight may have been somewhat payback for a collision last week that injured a yankee catcher (hard play not a cheap shot IMHO), but going in spikes up into Iwamura's knee in a spring training game doesn't impress me.

2. Jonny Gomes is the kind of guy that I would want on my team. He came flying in and basically leveled Duncan after the incident, which was probably not called for, but he stood up for his teamate. The end of the espn clip showed him getting high fives from other Rays players after being ejected and I can see why.

 

Question for BF--Would the current staff of players have the moxy to stand up for one another like this? And who would you think would be the first to defend his team in a brawl?

 

I would say they would surely stick up for one another, and I'd love to see Braun come running in from left and just pound someone. For some reason, I can just picture it happening. I know Prince can and does do damage just by colliding with players (usually teamates), but if Braun had the running start from left I would love to see what he could do.

[Blancofan1]

here is a link to a low quality video on youtube, but it's the only one I could find so far

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/12/yankees-and-rays-fight-in-video-form/

 

this is a lot better and gives some of the setup of the situation

 

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/12/yankees-and-rays-fight-in-video-form/

[Gobias Industries]

This TB-NYY feud has been building up for a few years. I first heard about the "brawl" on the web and then checked the highlights and was highly dissapointed. Shelly Duncan is a big, ugly dude who is impossible to tackle. I don't blame Gomes for doing what he did, but I hardly consider that a brawl. Nolan Ryan beating the crap out of Ventura was a "brawl".

As a Brewer fan I think we are pretty likely to see something this year. Prince seems like a timebomb when you combine how insane he would get after every HBP last year and his early attitude this Spring. Maybe we're lucky and we'll get to see Yost and LaRussa square off. Yost and Svuem were getting pretty riled up over Tony last year.

[logan82]

I seem to remember Prince at the top of the steps for something last year. I forget what for exactly, but he had one foot out of the dugout.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I think Dave Bush could take a punch.

[sbrylski]

I think a ST game is not the stage for bowling over the catcher. I would equate it to hitting the QB in practice.

 

Going in with the cleats like Duncan did is acceptable never.

 

Both teams are at fault.

 

And if I was Gomes, I too would have been pissed to see him slide like that. But in the 8 seconds that it took him to run to the play, I would have come to the realization that what he did helps nothing.

[owbc]

To me, this is a very interesting situation from the Yankees' perspective.

 

This is something that probably wouldn't have happened under Torre and seems to represent a new direction under Girardi--even if it is only spring training. The Yankees tend to represent a corporation, with lots of high-paid players and very little fire. If Girardi gets them to play like they are on a mission--not just trying to fulfill high expectations, the Yankees could wind up being better than expected. I'm not predicting it and I'm not convinced of Girardi's credentials as a manager, but I see it as a positive for the Yankees.

 

As for the Brewers, I think Prince Fielder getting hit by a pitch and glaring down a pitcher will eventually trigger a fight this year--most likely when the Brewers retaliate for it, as I doubt they would directly challenge Fielder to a fight. If I recall correctly, Rickie Weeks appeared to be the first one to the top of the dugout after last year's near-altercation with the Pirates.

[TooLiveBrew]

It's funny to me how you don't hear much of the Rays bowling over Yankees catching prospect Francsico Cervelli last week in the 8th inning of a ST game on a dirtball play, breaking the kid's wrist (he's out a month).? Or no mention how all the TB players sounded off like their wanna-be tough guy manager who basically said, 'It's hardball.'? Well, Maddon & Rays, guess this is 'just hardball', huh?

"Four days after Carl Crawford barreled over a catcher on a play at the plate, Elliot Johnson lowered his shoulder and floored New York Yankees catcher Francisco Cervelli in the Rays' 4-1 victory on Saturday.

Cervelli broke his right wrist while making the tag, and Yankees manager Joe Girardi was angry with the aggressive play.

'I think it's uncalled for,' Girardi said. 'Spring training, you're going to get people hurt, and that's what we got. We got Cervelli hurt.'

 

- Ocala.com story

 

 

 

I just can't get too upset about the Rays playing trash baseball (in a vain attempt to say 'Yeeeea!? We're tough!') and receiving trash in kind.? Do unto others...

 

This is something that probably wouldn't have happened under Torre and seems to represent a new direction under Girardi--even if it is only spring training

 

IMO this has nothing to do with Torre/Girardi.? Very different managerial styles, yes... but I'd be pissed if this happened to Salome a year or two from now and our squad didn't have anything to say about it later on.? This is flat-out the bed the Rays made.? If you play with no class, expect none in return.

 

 

EDIT: Yea, that was the 8th inning of a ST game... lowered his shoulder to hit the kid as hard as he could when a hook slide was probably the best chance to score.? You stay classy Tampa Bay!

[SeriesFinale]

People lower their shoulder in an attempt to knock the catcher off-kilter and score all the time. Spikes into the second baseman's knee does not equate.

[TooLiveBrew]

People lower their shoulder in an attempt to knock the catcher off-kilter and score all the time

 

Not in ST they don't. Refresh that scenario... it's Villanueva covering the plate. Thoughts?

[SeriesFinale]

I wouldn't be happy he's out but they're not playing with yellow jerseys on out there, either. I can also say I;d be deeply disappointed if they retaliated in that fashion.

 

The slide was rough play, maybe indeed slightly too much so for ST...however, the cleats to the knees were nothing but intentional and way over-the-line, especially since they'd already brushed Crawford back in the 1st and had been warned.

[TooLiveBrew]

But the Rays have been after this 'tough guy' thing before the collision with Cervelli. To display this lack of respect for the men who play the game during ST is despicable imo... but something tells me we won't agree.

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Kurt]

I have a problem with Shelly Duncan pulling this crap with only 74 MLB ABs under his belt. Not that anyone should be doing this but you at least have to put your time in.

[ELCABALLO45]

Does this mean Shelly Duncan is a true Yankee?

[Gopher74]

It's funny to me how you don't hear much of the Rays bowling over Yankees catching prospect Francsico Cervelli last week in the 8th inning of a ST game on a dirtball play, breaking the kid's wrist (he's out a month).? Or no mention how all the TB players sounded off like their wanna-be tough guy manager who basically said, 'It's hardball.'? Well, Maddon & Rays, guess this is 'just hardball', huh?

I just can't get too upset about the Rays playing trash baseball (in a vain attempt to say 'Yeeeea!? We're tough!') and receiving trash in kind.? Do unto others...

First of all, I'm a big surprised that you haven't heard much about this. I've heard about this about 20 different times just casually watching a sportscenter, or whatever. It was on Around the Horn and PTI, and the consensus was in almost every place that it was a good, clean play. If you don't want to get run over, DON'T BLOCK THE PLATE. It's baseball 101, and you're asking a guy who may not ever get another chance to make a club to give himself up there?

 

What's even more ridiculous to me? This is the type of play Joe Girardi would make time and time again, ST or not.

 

And as for Salome, I wouldn't be the least bit upset. You don't hold back while you're playing this game because it's ST. I'd be more upset if my guy broke and ankle ala JJ Hardy because he slid into a catcher blocking the plate.

 

You play the game softer because it's ST, you're more likely to get hurt.

 

This is a product of the Yankee arrogance in my opinion.

[Gopher74]

People lower their shoulder in an attempt to knock the catcher off-kilter and score all the time

 

Not in ST they don't. Refresh that scenario... it's Villanueva covering the plate. Thoughts?

When exactly would Villanueva block the plate? C'mon, two totally difference scenarios. You could say an outside pitch to Prince would hit Rickie, but it really doesn't have any bearing on this particular situation, ie, you can't replace the catcher with pitchers and say "what if they got run over". I can't fathom a pitcher with his knees down, in front of the plate blocking it.

 

[DuWayne Steurer]

I have to echo other's sentiments on this one.......if you don't want to get hit, *don't block the plate*. Yes, he could have done a hook slide, but there's a huge difference between knocking a catcher down when he's blocking the plate, and going in spikes/knees at 2nd base. One is an acceptable and *legal* play, the other is not. It doesn't matter if it's ST, I strongly suspect a guy coming balls out down the 3rd base line is going to be thinking about that at the critical moment.

[RU Rah Rah]

I think there are varying levels of premeditation here. On a play at the plate, you really have a split second to decide what you're going to do, and how you're going to do it. If the catcher doesn't yet have the ball, or the throw is off line, or some other miscue happens, you're obviously going to let up. But if the ball arrives on time and the catcher is blocking the plate, you have to decide -- in a blink, basically -- if you're going to go over, under, or around him. At a certain point, I think it's a reflex, bang-bang play; you don't necessarily have time -- when you're running full blast and 10 feet from the plate -- to say, "Well, it's only spring training, so maybe I should let up."

 

The Shelley Duncan play at second base was another matter entirely. From the time he left first base, he obviously had every intent of spiking the guy. It wasn't even close. It was just a cheap play.

 

Gomes probably went overboard, but he gets points for standing up for teammate (albeit in a slightly rampaging way).

[RedbirdRay]

I've always been a Gomes fan. I think he's hugely underrated, especially by his own team/manager. You can ratchet him further up my like list now. Dave Duncan's other son seems to be a real punk. Maybe I just have blinders on regarding Chris. Afterall, I guess he did "hump" the World Series trophey.

[The Ignitor]

The running over the catcher, while rough in spring training, was legitimate baseball. Raising your spikes after being thrown out by 20-feet and driving it towards the 2nd baseman's knee and groin is nothing but a cheapshot specifically designed to injured the player. The two simply do not equate.

[jwill535]

a five year veteran or more making that play in ST, not acceptable. A kid fighting for his career and trying to fullfill a dream, perfectly fine. Any and i repeat any player in that kids position would do the same thing. This may your only chance to make an impression on the major league manager. Hustle and determination like that will get you noticed.

[fondybrewfan]

I am pretty sure Fielder would have some Chuck Norris qaulities in a fight. I also wouldnt want to get involved with Cappy, he probably has a wicked left hook. I think seeing Sheets in a fight would be hilarious. I can just see him trying to land a punch but completely missing and falling on his face. But man o man I would think twice about throwing at Fielder, he could probably kill some one. And I agree with the assessment that he is a ticking time bomb. I think it is almost gauranteed that he will charge the mound at one point of another. He seems to have a lot of built up anger

[chuckiehacks]

Um, that's not spikes to the knee...

 

http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/62115195880888b1d9c194a986ad131420501a1.pjpg

 

 

[Fatter than Joey]

I know Prince can and does do damage just by colliding with players (usually teammates), but if Braun had the running start from left I would love to see what he could do.

 

Not me. I know what Braun can do -- mash the ball. I find the retaliatory stuff in MLB silly. The idea of Prince/Braun getting suspended/ejected or hurt in a series of "paybacks" will not help the Brewers win games.

 

Let Prince's and Braun's bat speak for them, not pitchers, not Ned Yost, etc....

 

As a side note, a couple of years ago my kids and I sent a card to Shelly Duncan requesting an autograph, and he sent back a very kind and genuine letter that is in the kid's scrapbooks. I would hope (and assume) that he got caught up in the heat of "making the team" -- which does not excuse him, -- however I think it was probably a stupid thing done by an otherwise decent kid.

[Tbadder]

I'm really of two minds here, and think that both sides of this argument are essentially correct.

 

1) The Yankees do suffer from Yankees-syndrome. Were the best, bow down to us, roll over and play dead.

2) The Rays suffer from little guy-syndrome. You can't push me around just because I'm short and can't get chicks.

3) Retaliation is apart of the game. It always has been. It's never gonna change. And if you're gonna be a hothead like Fielder then you're damn right I'm gonna throw at you until you do something stupid and get yourself suspended even if it costs me.

4) Catching is dangerous duty, and far too many catchers block the plate automatically when in fact it's only suppose to be blocked under certain circumstances.

5) Unwritten rules are meant to be followed. If you deviate there will be consequences. It's always been apart of the game; it always will.

6) A smart team sends out it's goons to do the dirty work. You don't endanger your front line guys, besides A-Rod is a total wuss/prima donna.

 

I'd like to see Counsell in a fight.