How are we going to figure this rotation out?

[adambr2]

I'm glad I'm not the one who has to sort this out.

Vargas has been good. So have Villy and Parra. Bush and Capuano have not been -- not likely what Yost and Co. were hoping to see.

Vargas has generally been thought of as the odd man out in all this, but that seems to be becoming less of a foregone conclusion these days. I'm not sure we want to lose the depth at this point.

It seems almost unfathomable that either Capuano or Bush would head down to Nashville, but both do have options left.

Similar to Braun last spring, I'm not sure that there's anything Parra can do to fight himself onto the roster. It's a question of smart business logic with him at this point, and we may re-evaluate in late May when we can afford to bring him up without having to use this year as a service year for him.

[Gopher74]

I'm glad I'm not the one who has to sort this out.

 

 

It seems almost unfathomable that either Capuano or Bush would head down to Nashville, but both do have options left.

 

Similar to Braun last spring, I'm not sure that there's anything Parra can do to fight himself onto the roster. It's a question of smart business logic with him at this point, and we may re-evaluate in late May when we can afford to bring him up without having to use this year as a service year for him.

 

 

Well, bringing him up in May will still result in this being a year of service time for him. Last year we simply wanted to avoid Braun being eligible for "Super 2" status which just means that he'd have to wait an additional year to be arby eligible, but you don't gain another year by doing so. And since Parra was on the big league roster for probably about 50-60 days last year, that's even less of a factor than it was with Braun.

I think the only thing that keeps him off is if they want to keep his innings down and less stressful, but even that IMO won't keep him from breaking camp with the big league team.

 

[Mr QL]

Why should Capuano make the team let alone the rotation if he is still horrible and he can be sent down. Send him to Nashville until he earns his way back. Bush too if he can't show anything. I don't want these two guys stinking up the rotation until June for the team to realize this aint working out. What's wrong with playing the guys who earn their spot?

[Ennder]

Vargas looked good last year too and then fell apart by the end of april so I'm not sure he'll earn a spot just with a good spring. It is too early to really talk about who has 'earned the spot' since these early spring training games mean virtually nothing.

[JJHardy7]

Vargas looked good last year too and then fell apart by the end of april so I'm not sure he'll earn a spot just with a good spring. It is too early to really talk about who has 'earned the spot' since these early spring training games mean virtually nothing.

 

I agree. I think the Brewers pretty much have made their mind up one way or another regardless of what any player does unless they go to an extreme in terms of good or bad. The easiest solution would be a trade of one of the veterans before opening day.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Vargas looked good last year too and then fell apart by the end of april so I'm not sure he'll earn a spot just with a good spring. It is too early to really talk about who has 'earned the spot' since these early spring training games mean virtually nothing.

 

To this point, the spring training games mean virtually nothing, but if Capuano and Bush want to keep their spots in the rotation, they're going to need to have some better outings once they get stretched out to 5-6 innings. IMO, the Brewers have to make personnel decisions based on what gives them the best chance to win over the course of the entire season. To this point, Parra is definitely making the decision to start him in AAA difficult - I think he should make a month and a 1/2's worth of starts down in Nashville, then head to Milwaukee if there's a rotation stooge or two scuffling.

 

Regarding Capuano, one thing I'd like to know is where his velocity's been so far this spring. If his fastball's back in the upper 80's/ touching 90, I'd be much more comfortable with him starting than if it was still in the low to mid 80's...he's got a good changeup, but when there's less than 10 mph difference between all of his pitches, he's going to continue getting hit hard the 2nd and 3rd times through the order. For all the statistical analysis of how 'effective' Capuano actually has been compared to his record, he's not the same pitcher that compiled those stats if his velocity's down 5 mph.

[JohnBriggs12]

Vargas looked good last year too and then fell apart by the end of april so I'm not sure he'll earn a spot just with a good spring. It is too early to really talk about who has 'earned the spot' since these early spring training games mean virtually nothing.

It's a stretch to say Vargas "fell apart" after April. He tailed off after mid May when his ERA stood at 2.92, but so did his some of his competition.

 

Vargas' credentials, 43-38, 4.95 for his career, are pretty much in the same neighborhood as Bush or Capuano. But he doesn't have options and they do. If he continues to throw well in Arizona (and they don't), I think he has to be given the edge. If he starts to fade again as the season wears on, they can always make a change.

 

What we are seeing so far this spring (and it's early), is that the starter depth, so cherished by Yost, may actually come from unexpected sources like Jackson and Narveson.

 

But it's still very early. I doubt any decision will be made for another two weeks.

[Ennder]

It's a stretch to say Vargas "fell apart" after April. He tailed off after mid May when his ERA stood at 2.92, but so did his some of his competition

 

I don't think it is a stretch at all.

 

 

Through April 23rd he had 24 K and 3 BB in 17 IP, he was going after hitters with great results. Then in his next 5 starts he had 17 K, 17 BB in 27 IP and he started pitching like Doug Davis, nibbling away on the corners. Just because he stranded some runners doesn't mean he was pitching well in May, he was pretty bad.

[derflotr]

Can someone explain this to me please?

 

What's the difference between innings in AAA and innings in MLB? I mean, all I hear is how Parra needs to limit his innings, but if he's getting consistent starts in AAA it's not like he isn't pitching. Will they just have him pitch less at AAA or what? If they only want him to get X amount of innings why can't they let him do it with the Brewers, even if it means missing a start here or there to "save" his arm?

[rluzinski]

Vargas has been good. So have Villy and Parra. Bush and Capuano have not been -- not likely what Yost and Co. were hoping to see.

 

Those three players have a pitched a combined 19 innings so far. At this point, all Yost and Co. want to see is that their pitchers don't get hurt while getting back into the groove of things.

[sgtcluels]

Russ is right on. We still have some time for the kids to get their breaking balls and out pitches better before we make a decision. PETCOA isn't very friendly to Parra this year!

[JJHardy7]

What's the difference between innings in AAA and innings in MLB? I mean, all I hear is how Parra needs to limit his innings, but if he's getting consistent starts in AAA it's not like he isn't pitching. Will they just have him pitch less at AAA or what? If they only want him to get X amount of innings why can't they let him do it with the Brewers, even if it means missing a start here or there to "save" his arm?

 

In Nashville at least, the managers play to win to a certain extent, but not to the extent that Milwaukee does. In other words, if Parra is pitching a gem they can take him out at any time per the instructions from the Brewers. It's easier to take him out in a close game in the minors than it is in a close game in the bigs. I also don't think sending him to the minors is to save his arm as much as it is to build it up. He'll get the ball every 5 days and if he's the 5th guy with Milwaukee its possible he wouldn't get regular work or would be in the bullpen.

[Thurston Fluff]

It is way too early to tell yet. That said we are fans and this is a fan board so why not speculate? If Cappy and Bush do have options left and they are not the best canidates I don't see any reason why their salary or service time int he bigs should prevent them from being sent down. If they are not the best options why not send them down and call them back up when they are the best option? If Vargas is pitching well and is the best option why would his decline after the first month or so last year translate to him not being the best option the first month or so this year? If he fades like he did last year then make the change. I couldn't care less if they have the same 5 starters all year or if they end up using 8 differant starters as long as the results are the best possible. The problem with Cappy, Bush and Vargas isn't so much that they are all so good as it is they all have their warts. If any of them were coming off good years last year they wouldn't be competing for a spot this year. They'd be penciled in like Sheets, Soup and YoGa.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Regarding their options, aren't Cappy and Bush both in a situation where they'd have to pass through some sort of waivers before heading to AAA, since they've been MLB regulars for several seasons? I would think there are teams out there that would pick them up swiftly, since the Sidney Ponsons of the world are getting contracts.

 

I don't know if optioning these two to AAA is a viable option. I wonder if with Capuano's offseason shoulder surgery on his non-throwing arm - would the Brewers be able to keep him in extended spring training if they DL him? Since he's really been unable to even swing a bat much during his rehab, it might be the best place for him to start the season.

[DrWood]

A few more 5 inning shutouts from Vargas and someone will come shopping. I think you'd sell, but it's open for discussion.

[Ennder]

Yes, they have to pass through revocable waivers. So if we try to send them down just one team has to claim them and we have to yank it back and leave them on the roster all year.

[LUKE232323]

I'm going to be absolutely livid if Vargas is on the 25 man roster come opening day. We have seven starting pitchers that are better, thus making this a no-brainer decision.

 

I think what eventually happens is what I predicted in the starting rotation thread. Rotation when healthy will be Sheets, Gallardo, Suppan, Villanueva, Capuano, Bush goes to long relief, Parra goes to AAA, and Vargas is traded for whatever.

[Thurston Fluff]

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought if they had an option left they could be sent down without be subjected to waivers. Weeks was sent down last year without going through waivers and he was one the big league roster for a couple years.

[lukevan]

It has to do with amount of MLB service time, I believe.

[Thurston Fluff]

This was in the JS. They mention the options and the reason they gave for it not being liklely was due to salary not waiver concerns. One would think they'd at least mention the waiver concerns if there are some. Then again it is the JS...

 

Capuano, Bush, Villanueva and Parra all have minor-league options but the first two have salaries considerably higher than you usually see in Class AAA.

[Ennder]

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought if they had an option left they could be sent down without be subjected to waivers. Weeks was sent down last year without going through waivers and he was one the big league roster for a couple years.

 

If the assignment is to begin at least three full calendar years from the date of the player's first appearance on a 25-man roster, then the player can not be sent on an optional assignment without first clearing major league waivers. These waivers are revocable

Pretty sure they both fall under that rule.

[1992casey]

What's the difference between innings in AAA and innings in MLB?

Adding to what JJ says above, AAA innings tend to be easier because the competition isn't as good. That's an advantage when you're trying to preserve an arm.

 

Regarding Capuano, one thing I'd like to know is where his velocity's been so far this spring.

Exactly. You can't rely on spring training box score stats to be able to tell how well a player is doing. But you can certainly use stats like velocity.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought if they had an option left they could be sent down without be subjected to waivers.

It's an obscure rule applying to players who've been in the big leagues for a while. See the Death, Taxes, and Major League Waivers article in the Transaction Forum FAQ. Interestingly, however, the article says a player needs to go through revocable waivers if it's been three calendar years since his first appearance in the majors. It's curious that it wasn't an issue when Weeks was sent down last year. (Maybe he sneaked through?)

 

While I've been supporting the concept of Parra starting the year in Nashville, I guess I wouldn't have a problem if he began the year in Milwaukee as Gallardo's replacement, then went to Nashville after that.

[Thurston Fluff]

It's curious that it wasn't an issue when Weeks was sent down last year. (Maybe he sneaked through?)

 

Yea I saw the post Ennder had about it being three years from the first appearance in a game and Weeks came up in September his first year since. Maybe September callups don't count toward that.

[1992casey]

One rule of thumb with every waiver/transaction FAQ on the web: some little tidbit is likely to be incomplete or wrong. I'm sure this guy checked this out and that the basic gist of the rule is stated correctly, but it's possible that he could have missed a detail.

 

It's also possible that other teams, knowing that they would have had to work out a trade to get Rickie anyway, didn't bother to file a claim simply to block him from being optioned.

[DrWood]

It's curious that it wasn't an issue when Weeks was sent down last year. (Maybe he sneaked through?)

 

Yea I saw the post Ennder had about it being three years from the first appearance in a game and Weeks came up in September his first year since. Maybe September callups don't count toward that.

the quote said 25 man roster. Weeks was on the 40 man roster in that Sept.