07/23/07 Brewers (Capuano) @ Reds (Harang) 6:05pm CT

[bork]

Maybe these guys need to get knocked out of first place to wake them up. Then they can't fall back on the "but we're still in first place" crap.

[brewcrewkid14]

I'm going to agree with Invader there. This was a team loss tonight, not the manager's.

 

To be honest, I probably would have left Shouse in, but I would not have brought in Cordero because I don't want to use my closer for a two inning stint at the beginning of a eight game week.

 

Sadly, the spotlight is being shone on Balfour tonight. He may have never been in that position if Estrada learns to show some hustle instead of doing his usual trot after he hits a groundball. And I have been one to usually defend Estrada. Ugh. Not anymore.

[jaybird2001wi]

With the stretch of 8 games in 7 days, you think Yost will go with a 6 man rotation to save some arms? We got enough starters.

 

Bush, Capuano, Vargas, Parra, Gallardo, Suppan

[BrewCrewForever]

Well at least we get to look forward to seeing Gallardo start tomorrow.

[brewcrew00]

I know it's easy to pick one play or situation in games, but it should be pointed out to the Jenkins slump continued tonight with another 0-4.

[PeaveyFury]

Spurling would have been even a more logical choice if Yost was going in that direction because even though he is bad, he has at least done a couple of good things.

 

At this point, I'd imagine the management would probably strongly prefer to get Spurling an outing in a low pressure situation before being thrown into a 1-1 game in the 12th, considering that his psyche probably is fairly stressed at this point and he hasn't pitched in like 10 days.

[DougJones43]

For the record, I'm not blaming Yost for the loss. I can disagree with his managing without necessarily thinking he is the reason we lost. Obviously, there were many other factors. Namely, Johnny Estrada and the rest of the pathetic offensive attack.

[brewcrew00]

Hey, all in good fun!http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif (minus the loss obviously).

[wibadgers23]

The blame goes to Estrada and Balfour for me, not Yost. Absolutely unacceptable at-bat for Estrada. Not only did he hit a weak ground ball with the bases loaded and no out, but he failed to run at full strength. Just pathetic. He shouldn't play for the next couple games, imo. As far as Balfour goes, well, have fun in Nashville. If you can't throw strikes, you aren't going to be playing in the major leagues.

[jlau20]

Just throwing this out there, does anyone really believe Estrada beats that doubleplay out if he flat out runs right off the bat?

 

In all honesty I don't think he beats it out anyways.

 

I'm more frustrated that he couldn't atleast pop the ball up and hope it gets deep enough in the OF.

 

EDIT: Not excusing his lack of hustle by anymeans, but I'm just not sure he beats that one out no matter what.

 

...and I haven't seen the replay yet, but from my first impressions I thought he was probably going to be out anyways.

[PeaveyFury]

He only got thrown out by a step, and the catcher double clutched the ball. If he runs full out the whole way, he's safe pretty easily, IMO.

[pitchleague]

I haven't read the thread yet and I don't know if they showed it on FSN-WI but, in Estrada's defense (I guess), he kinda had to duck the throw from first to home.

 

Okay, he didn't "have" to. He coulda just took one in the melon/gut/leg/wherever to stay out of the DP.

 

But, I'll agree that once the ball was past him on it's way to the plate he coulda kicked it up a notch.

 

Miller is due for a start anyhow, right?

[Weeks4MVP]

Ball-four just isn't a major league pitcher. He can't throw strikes when he needs to and when he throws strikes he gets hammered. He reminds me of Ben Hendrickson. Great minor league numbers but a terrible big leaguer. Hopefully he doesn't get as many chances or we might be thinking of 2008 early.

[brewcrewkid14]

I am not sure. I was wondering the same thing.

 

However, looking at the replay, it appeared that the Reds were just going to take the one out because the catcher double pumped the ball as if he was going to hang on to it, but he saw Estrada walking to first so he threw it.

 

I guess I just don't understand why one of the VETERANS on this team end up doing that. That is just unacceptable and I think this is as mad as I've been at a player in a long time.

[brewblue1]

I'm not necessarily mad at Yost for this one game. But I do think that Ned has cost the Crew at least 4 or 5 games because of his philosophy on how to handle pitchers.

 

He continually leaves pitchers in too long. His approach is to let them fail, THEN pull them.

 

In a 12 inning game, ya can't do that.

 

I don't disagree with trying Balfour again. I mean, ya gotta think he'll do better than his last outing. Right? I question how long he left him in. He should have pulled Balfour after the FIRST walk.

[jlau20]

I'm not sure either, just wondering from people who saw the replay, I left the room.

 

On the double clutch, it was waiting for Conine to get back to the base, not that it has anything to do with it, it was still a double clutch.

 

Bummer of a game, I think we can all agree on that.

[mrfed8]

Just throwing this out there, does anyone really believe Estrada beats that doubleplay out if he flat out runs right off the bat?

 

In all honesty I don't think he beats it out anyways.

 

My fiancee and I fought about this when it happened...I said he would have been safe if he had ran and she disagreed. Either way, it truly looked like Estrada was dogging it.

 

This loss reminds me of the Verlander game earlier this year or the beginning of Turnbow's real problems last year (I remember it truly began after the All-Star break last year in Arizona). We can come out of this one like we did after the no hitter (strong) or we can come out of it like we did after Turnbow blowing up repeatedly (floundering)...

 

This team is young; hopefully, it can find a way to use tonight for momentum and not pain...

[wibadgers23]

Quote:

---

That is just unacceptable and I think this is as mad as I've been at a player in a long time.

---

 

lol, same here. I just can't get over the lack of hustle in a situation like that. imo, Estrada should not be playing for the next couple days. Absolutely unacceptable.

[Marc Newfield of Dreams]

I'm not mad about Ned, not mad about Balfour. I expected a loss with the pen short. You don't burn out Cordero when it's tied on the road. So your options there are Spurling and Balfour. Pick your AAAA poison. Spurling would have probably blown it too, but with a HR instead.

 

Estrada jogging out that DP ball drives me up the wall though. Either its him being inattentive or flat out lazy. Both are completely unacceptable in that situation.

 

I think Grant is gone when Billy comes back. Having 13 pitchers is useless when one can't get an out.

[whynotthebrewers]

Blaming Ned for this is very funny to me. I watched the same game as everyone else and I guess no one else saw them leave the bases loaded with nobody out. The game was well pitched on both sides and now Ned is getting heat because Balfour blew the game. We were down to our last couple guys in the bullpen so I am not sure what other options we had. But not scoring any runs really screwed this game and I am laughing out loud now that I read all this Ned stuff. Was there another game that I missed? It was all setup and we didn't get it done. But ned always seems to get the blame no matter what happens. I call those people the "blame Ned for any loss" people, because there is always an answer for what could have been done in order to win. So easy to say after the fact. But always fun to listen to seeing it always seems so easy, after the game is over.

 

More runs were needed and some situational hitting would have been good. Hurts to lose but there doesn't always need to be someone to blame. Sometimes you just didn't get it done and you lose. Move on people.

[treego]

Thanks for the advice, Mr. Yost.

 

Seriously, I owe this loss to 2 guys not hustling/earning their paycheck----JJ Hardy and Estrada.

 

AND to a bunch of hitters that are nowhere Braun's caliber, it seems. Braun is incredible.

[Big Jay of the North]

Maybe I'm nuts, but did anyone else think the Crew should have squeezed in a run in the 11th? I know that puts a lot of pressure on Estrada but I think he should be able to put a bunt down and I don't think the Reds would have saw it coming. I know it would have been a gamble but the way it worked out it couldn't have been any worse.

[TGJforPrez]

I'm not mad about Ned, not mad about Balfour. I expected a loss with the pen short. You don't burn out Cordero when it's tied on the road. So your options there are Spurling and Balfour. Pick your AAAA poison. Spurling would have probably blown it too, but with a HR instead.

 

Estrada jogging out that DP ball drives me up the wall though. Either its him being inattentive or flat out lazy. Both are completely unacceptable in that situation.

 

I think Grant is gone when Billy comes back. Having 13 pitchers is useless when one can't get an out.

 

This is laughable to me. While I am not saying its Neds fault, how can you say not to burn Cordero? Who is the one guy that could get you out of that inning without a run? Cordero! I dont understand why he can only be used in a save situation. What does it matter if he is fresh for the 13th inning, if it doesnt get that far. Pinella used Carlos Marmol in the 6th inning this week and when asked why he stated that you need to use your best pitchers in desparate situations.. I totally agree!

[thablingster]

I've seen enough of Balfour. Send him back where he came from.

 

That's pretty disappointing Estrada didn't even attempt to run out that DP ball.

[shelmark]

I indirectly blame Yost for one thing tonight, and that is Estrada not running hard to first. Against SF Saturday, a groundball was hit to first by Estrada, he did his usual weeble wobble jog to first. Meanwhile, Lincecum was playing soccer with the baseball at 1B. Had Estrada run, he may have been safe. I was wondering if Yost would admonish Estrada. It is clear he did not. Well, Mr. Yost, that may have cost you tonight. I don't care about having only one more catcher, Yost should've sent a message loud and clear and benched Estrada. Had Yost talked to Estrada on Saturday, maybe he runs hard and maybe he is safe, maybe. I simply can't stand to watch Estrada play baseball.