3/7/08 Rangers (Jennings) at Brewers (Villanueva): 2:05 PM CST

[JohnBriggs12]

Villanueva threw 188 innings two years ago, and shut out the World Champ Cardinals for 8 innings on the final day of the season. Last year he posted an ERA of 1.99 in September.

 

He's never shown any tendency to wear down as a starter.

[sheetswannabe]

John... You really should use so many quotes..

[And That]

Personally, I love the back and forth on the rotation controversy. Spring training is drawn out and rather boring but this keeps it interesting.

I agree with that, I just was hoping that Yost would seem more open minded about the possiblilty of Manny or Villy supplanting one of the 3-headed/5+ era monster of Vargas/Cappy/Bush. Its not like Parra and Villy haven't shown that they are capable of pitching at the major league level. I have nothing against any of those 3 veterans - I would love to see Cappy get back to his old self and I think maybe Bush would be better off in the pen

Problem is what is the rotation suppose to look like in August and September when Bush and Vargas are gone....and Parra and Villy both have hit their Inning Limits...

 

I really dont want to see Zach Jackson starting every 5th day because Parra pitched his 155th inning by Mid August...

 

I think the wisdom is see what Bush, Cappy, Vargas and Suppan do with a REAL catcher that helps out command type pitchers..

 

I dont understand why people say Villy has proven himself.....6 starts in 2006 and 6 starts in 2007...with the majority coming against Sept Callups...to me is NOT a track record its a small sample size...and has shown success because there is no real book on him yet...

 

Its no conidence that Suppan, Vargas, Bush and Cappy had their worst years of their career pitching to Estrada last season....

All valid points and I mostly agree with all of that! Although personally, I do believe Villy has established himself. He was lights out in relief last year until he got overworked and I have yet to see him have real poor start.

Yeah he had a good first half in the bull pen until he got overworked.... pitching 2 inning BP sessions..... How fast is he going to get "overworked" when pitching 6-7 innings....instead of 4 innings every every week...

 

His stuff is just like Cappys...below average fastball and lives on the change up.....NEEDS Perfect control... thats why Cappy and Villy...tend to tail off at the end of the year... they get tired their command goes...they then try to work more in over the plate and they dont have the stuff to get people out that way...then they get rocked...

When did Capuano ever throw a curveball or hit 92 with his fastball? Villanueva does both on regular basis.

I'm quoting all this to prove a point...

You don't need to quote all this. Please keep quotes only to extremely relevant material.

[DrWood]

Metcalf=Rally killer.

on the ESPN board last season, someone was trying to argue that home runs were rally killers.

 

[sheetswannabe]

I am going to practice grounders outside... I will be done with PBP today..hope ya liked it! Go crew! I am predicting a 2 run rally this inning

[And That]

I think BA may have had a cold one or two since the beginning of the broadcast.

[BrewerBrent]

Seems like we've been able to run all over Laird. Both in this game and the previous meeting.

[Ennder]

Villanueva's average fastball was 90.11 MPH last year. Bush was 90.3 MPH. Capuano was 88.42. Now Capuano's velocity was supposedly down last year so his numbers are a little less reliable. He might be throwing less than that on average now or more, hard to say.

[datrain711]

yost better think long and hard about capuano. More and more it seems like he's part of the rotation because he holds the ball with his left hand. I hope he makes me eat my words, but it seems that Capuano's run of bad outings has affected his ability to "go after" hitters. And as a guy who doesn't have a 98 mph fastball, he can't afford to lose his agressiveness.

[erbacaine04]

When did Capuano ever throw a curveball or hit 92 with his fastball? Villanueva does both on regular basis.

 

Villy hit low 90s on a regular basis from the Pen..... which when you are throwing one or 2 innings then you can throw your hardest...in 2006 as a starter and his fastball was and is around 87-89 Mph..... Cappuano his fastball is around 86-88..... at the end of last year for some reason Cappy was throwing 83-85 mph fastballs...

 

They have the same stuff...

 

Bush his fastball.. is 89-92...usually averages 90...mph.. plus he has a good breaking ball...

 

Parra for innings limit... has had 2 seasons of 130 innings.... in fact only 2 seasons of over 92 innings thrown...(2003 and 2007)...he has been shut down every other year... because of arm sorness...He needs to be watched still

 

Villy... pitched 180 innings 2006...122 innings in 2007... Do you think he can handle 180 innings this season... I certainly dont think so...

 

Also you said he has never worn down as a Starter.... HE STARTED 6 GAMES.... against Sept. Call ups...

 

Come on 6 starts each of the last 2 years is Way to small of a sample size...... Rich Hill had an April of 1.77 ERA baseball last season... the rest of the year he was a 4.40 ERA pitcher...

 

Mike Fontenot had a 6 week period where he was a .400 batting average hitter........ with you guys that Would be all the track record needed for him to be starting over Weeks or Hardy....

 

Pitchers do well when they are not known.... Villy is still not known... there is no real book out on him yet as a starter... maybe teams are figuring out his crappy stuff...since he was getting hit hard in August... who knows... but 6 starts in 2006 and 6 starts in 2007 IS NOT A TRACK RECORD...its a sample size

[DrWood]

I wonder if some guys just need to change approach every once in awhile. Maddox has refined a few nuggets for us, but I wonder if a couple of our guys need to be nuggets for someone else. different pitching coach, new chance, get success.

[JohnBriggs12]

Bush throws a little harder than Villy, and has a good curve, but Villy has a curve he can throw for strikes that he often uses as a first pitch rather than an "out" pitch. Villy's "out" pitch is his superior change.

[datrain711]

this whole idea to have a competition for the last spot(s) in the rotation hasn't gone too well this spring. I'm not basing a whole lot on a few starts, but I'd sure like to see somebody step up and win the job.

[DrWood]

this whole idea to have a competition for the last spot(s) in the rotation hasn't gone too well this spring. I'm not basing a whole lot on a few starts, but I'd sure like to see somebody step up and win the job.

bush and capuano certainly are "stepping down" and trying to give their slots away. Suppan-bad. Vargas has been so-so. Sheets and Parra stellar--maybe Villy, depending how this outing goes.

 

[erbacaine04]

Well so far the Best Starters this Spring have been Sheets, Parra and Villy.....but again in Spring they pitch 2 or 3 innings... and sometimes in those 2 or 3 innings they are working on their other pitches...and not going about it like a real game......Maddux wants to see more change ups.... then they pitch more changeups...thats why if a person gets hit hard... and you hear Yost say he was doing the things we asked of him well..... well than there you go...

If Bush and Cappy are getting rocked next week or the last week of Spring Training then yeah I will be a little worried....but not yet

[Ennder]

Those numbers I posted really suggest that Villanueva throws just as hard as Bush. Now that could be misleading because a lot of those were out of the bullpen which are more max effort pitches. They both average 90 MPH on their fastball. They were pulled from pitch/fx.

 

Bush throws more fastballs than Villanueva does.

[DrWood]

rangers seem to be practicing wild pitches today

[erbacaine04]

Yeah I posted a link a few weeks back on Jsonline. Blogs that had all the averages of the Brewers pitchers and what percent of the Pitches were Fastballs..changeups so on....

 

So I know the numbers are pretty close.... and Yeah that 90mph average is a bit high for Villy because of all the Bullpen work he did... and 42% of his pitches were Fastballs....

 

I will try and find that link

 

I stole it from a post on the Espn Brewer board to... so I know its floating around somewhere...

[DannyKmilw]

IMO Villy has better stuff...sure Bush has a nasty slow curve but the difference in speed in his fastball and curve may be too much and also he has a tendency to hang his curve a lot. Again IMO, but Villy has better control of his fastball which sets up his curve and very good change. And when i say control i dont mean walks i mean mistakes. Just from what ive seen Bush leaves too many of his pitches down the heart of the plate.

[And That]

Ryan Braun, woot!

[Fear The Chorizo]

I'd really like to see Capuano revert back to being a solid option as a starter, but I don't think this team can afford to run him out there every 5th day until he 'figures it out' when they will most likely have better options in the minors ready to take his spot. I don't care if it's lack of velocity, command, mental, physical, whatever...if he can't get people out consistently he shouldn't be in the rotation. Another option they may be able to use with Capuano would be to DL him and let him stay in extended spring training...it'd give him more time to strengthen his non-throwing shoulder at least.

 

I know pitching always has value, but does anyone else think part of the reason one of Capuano, Vargas, or Bush hasn't been traded to this point is because other organizations realize that they'll probably be able to pick one up off the waiver wire, or trade next to nothing to acquire them? If they were better pitchers one of them would have already been dealt, IMO. I think as the regular season gets closer, the Brewers are really going to be in a roster bind with their pitching - in order for them to have the best chance to win, one of these struggling veteran starters will need to be dealt, put on waivers, or Elmer Dessens'ed for the 08 season.

[Mass Haas]

Ryan Braun is just insane. Thank you, Jack Z. and staff (again).

[DrWood]

yeah brauny, 3 run shot

[BrewerBrent]

Braun /bra?n; Ger. bra?n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[broun; Ger. broun]

-noun

1. Ridiculous

[erbacaine04]

IMO Villy has better stuff...sure Bush has a nasty slow curve but the difference in speed in his fastball and curve may be too much and also he has a tendency to hang his curve a lot. Again IMO, but Villy has better control of his fastball which sets up his curve and very good change. And when i say control i dont mean walks i mean mistakes. Just from what ive seen Bush leaves too many of his pitches down the heart of the plate.

 

And I guess thats fair..... in reality Bush, Villy and Cappy are all not seperated by much they will ALL always be nothing more than 4th or 5th starters...and should be pretty effective 4th or 5th starters.... I am just saying that Villy does not have a track record even though many think he does......Should he start this year...I think he should be given that chance.... but I so think we need a lefty in the rotation so for now that goes to Cappy.... while Gallardo is out its Bush and Villy in the rotation.... when he comes back we will see who is doing the worst at that time...