Being an outspoken employee

[jaybird2001wi]

I have come to the realization that I have become an outspoken employee for the good of my coworkers most recently. I am starting to wonder if that could become a bad thing.

I have been with the company for three years now and discovered that all new hires have the same starting wage as me, which is getting to be a big concern for not only myself, but for others in my same position.

What is worse is that once the new hires receive their 90 day probationary raise, they will make more money than me ($9 compared to the obvious $8.75).

Then what is more concerning is they are now giving all new hires a $750 signing bonus if they stay with the company for a certain amount of time. What happens to the more experienced people? They give a $500 bonus to those who accrue five years of service with the company. Does anyone think there is something wrong with this picture? Did it necessitate an e-mail outlining my concerns to the Milwaukee Region Manager?

What is worse is that the same thing happened to the experienced workers in the Walworth County region where I began my company time, I made $8 an hour to start while someone who had more experience as me made the same amount even after a pay raise he earned. The Walworth Region has less to do in regards to responsibilities (We are a caregiver organization).

The Walworth Region required susbstantially less CNA-type work while Milwaukee Region requires a lot more, and given that, I never was given a proper inflationary raise when I transferred. I am just wondering if any "boss-type people" here things I am on the wrong for pointing out these flaws?

[Fatter than Joey]

Nothing gets on my radar faster than employees chirping at me about what other employees make. I don't mind people valuing their ability against the workforce in general -- but when someone starts comparing what everyone makes, bad things happen.

[jwill535]

alot of companies have policies against discussing compensation between employees for this exact reason. You are better off living with it rather then looking for a new job beyond your control. Look at it this way, it is alot easier to fire you and hire a replacement then it is to deal with several disgruntled employees led by you.

[Brian the Automator]

Unless you're truly in a position of power, doing this type of thing never ends well. I've worked very hard to never burn any bridges in places I've worked, and it's definitely reaped dividends.

 

You can't fight city hall.

[Invader3K]

Why not just ask for a meeting with your supervisor, and request a raise? Don't mention other people's compensation, just outline your experience and qualifications. Otherwise, I don't think worrying about it does you much good.

 

The one thing you don't want to do is discuss it with other employees, at least very much. Squeaky wheels in big companies don't always get the grease...they just end up getting weeded out or passed over for promotions.

[GAME05]

squeaky wheels get fired for stirring unrest among other employees. it's not like you're waking the execs up to the fact that they don't pay more for service time.

 

call the Teamsters.

[Thurston Fluff]

Is it hard for them to find help since they are paying more bonus money to new people? Before saying anything one way or the other you should know what your bargaining power is. If they are desperate to fill the postions necessary you may be in a position to get a raise. If they simply do it because they don't care if you quit or not then obviously the situation is differant. If you can get another job in your field with relative ease maybe this is the right time to sign on with someone who appreciates experience more than your current employer apparantly does.

[Bankjob]

JWills Comment "alot of companies have policies against discussing compensation between employees for this exact reason."

 

This is not actually true, even though it is usually the perception of most employees. The National Labor Relations Act actually forbids it. Associates have the right to discuss wages and working conditions. I have been in HR for 7 years now and there are a lot of misconceptions such as this.

 

As for the original question from Jay:

 

It is great to bring your concerns up to your superiors, but it is all about tact. Schedule a meeting or a phone call with the person in charge of your area and discuss these concerns with them in a rational matter. DO NOT jut fire off a complaint filled letter to the highest person in the organization, it is a quick way to alienate yourself(unless of course it is something serious; SOX, harassment, etc.)

 

New associates making more than long term associates is fairly common place in today economy. As an employer I have to pay market price to bring in my talent. The gods honest truth is to maximize your salary in a professional environment you need to change company's every 5 - 7 years. Stay long enough not to be a job hopper, but generally when people leave an organization for more money they are looking for around a 15% increase.

 

Hope this helps.

[jwill535]

i totally agree with the changing jobs comment. Working as a carpenter when i was younger the only way i got a raise was to change jobs. But be careful, job jumping starts to look bad to future employers like Bank said. Construction is a different game and employee roll over is high so it really didnt matter. I am now in design and have worked for 3 different companies in 2 years. I left the first for a 30% raise, 6 months in i get recruited by a company closer to home, i only got a couple dollar an hour raise but the 50% drop in gas and time on the road was well worth it.

 

I should have been more clear, yes they cannot fire you for it, but you are going to get on the bad side from the get go if you are discussing compensation and going to your boss saying "XXXX makes more then me, that isnt fair i should be making more."

 

Like others have said, arrange a meeting and ask for a raise, dont bring up others wages, just ask and layout your reasons why you deserve a raise.

[davebobn]

Going over the head of your manager and emailing a Regional Manager will surely get a response, but probably not the one you're going to want to hear.

[colbyjack]

What I make financially is between me, my place of employment, my wife, my accountant and the IRS. Never talk or gripe about money publicly with co-workers (or anyone else IMO) for your own good. If you have an issue with what you are making, take it up direclty with your supervisor and never try to wage a war for peers that are in a similar position as you. You can definitely advise them as to how you acted, but money is just far too sensitive of a subject to start making waves over and is only going to leave a bad impression.

 

Handle it professionally and privately and you're more likely to get what you're looking for. If you don't, and there is another level you can reach to ask to hold a meeting to listen to your concerns, pursue that, or a different job if you're that unhappy.

[Blancofan1]

I personally run a retail environment and have about 40 or so employees. I will tell you flat out that whenever this situation has come up around my store, I have a lot more respect for and willingness to listen to the employee that seeks me out and speaks to me one on one. If it is important to you, I would suggest asking your supervisor when a good time to talk would be, show up on time for that meeting, and discuss your concerns. As others have posted, don't go with nancy nurse makes $xxx and candy CNA makes $xxx and I only make $1. But discuss it as it is important for yourself. Explain how long you have been there and how you perform your job and then, (this shows me a lot out of my employees) don't just ask for a raise but ask what you could do to help raise what your making. I always appreciate the ones who know it's better to ask "what can I do to get more money?" over the ones who simply state "I need more money" Hope that helps.

[logan82]

Like others have said, don't go over your immediate supervisor. They are the one who is more than likley to have the most direct input into most of your wage increases and while you may get a raise right now, it will probably hurt you in the long run by alienating them. You aren't going to be doing yourself any good by making you supervisor look like a fool which, trust me, you are going to make him/her feel like if their boss tells them you ased for a raise.

[Nader Raider Tim]

I know that you specifically asked for the opinion of "management," but I, as always am compelled to throw in my two cents.

 

As most people have already stated going to management is an iffy thing. Obtain all relevent information before scheduling a meeting, and really a face to face is the way to go. If you go in there and are passionate and rational in your arguments I would say that it is quite likely management would listen. Whether conditions would change or not is another story.

 

Have you ever thought about trying to Unionize? From past comments of yours I know that you are in a branch of the Healthcare Industry, and I know quite a few people in that industry in the Appleton/Green Bay area and the wages are terrible conditions deplorable. If management is unresponsive to the workforce perhaps it is time to stand up and demand that your voice be heard. Unionization would provide a medium for voicing not only your concerns about wages, but also about concerns about the care of the residents of the facilities. Union

 

(In my experiences talking with schoolmates, friends, and family about there experiences working in the Healthcare industry it is truly appalling how the health and wellbeing of the residents almost an afterthought, and when employee's bring up issues to superiors they are at best humored then the issue is dropped as soon as the "whistleblower" leaves the office, and at worst told to just be quite about it)

 

 

Here are a couple links about how to form a union and the potential benefits.

 

http://www.seiu1199wi.org/join/howformunion.cfm

 

http://www.seiu1199wi.org/onthejob/index.cfm

[dadofandrew]

As others have said, what others make is not really even part of the equation. Often times, they need to pay people what it takes to get someone in.

 

At this second, all you should have to do is point out the fact that they would have to pay someone more to replace you. However, making a big deal of it get you nowhere. If you're ready to leave because of it, make that known, but be prepared to be shown the door, unless you are truly valued.

[jazzytrav]

If you're ready to leave because of it, make that known, but be prepared to be shown the door, unless you are truly valued.

This is really the key. I like my employees to be risk-takers, and I always have an open door. But obviously not all managers are like this, and some may see your approach to them as a power struggle and let you walk...or make you walk. I think you really have to get a good feel for your immediate supervisor, if you don't already. Some scary people get into management.

 

If this is something that you really feel is affecting your pride and you don't want to work in that kind of situation anymore, then as dadofandrew said, you need to prepare yourself for the worst. If it's something you can live with until you find something better, then do that, and start applying. There's really no harm in finding out what your worth is in other jobs or at different health care places. For my employees' sake, I would rather they not show any loyalty, because that would give me a false sense of loyalty and make things worse if they decided to leave.

[mothershipconnection]

squeaky wheels get fired for stirring unrest among other employees.

 

Definitely. I have employees who think they're "standing up for themselves", etc, but what they're really doing is whining and annoying me. When you take me away from my actual job to deal with bickering, we aren't gonna get along. On the other hand, coming with a problem but addressing it from the angle of "I'd really be happier if this could happen" can work out great. Go to your supervisors and simply ask for a raise. Don't complain, and don't talk about anyone else's pay except to say late in your explanation that you are currently cheaper than a new employee as support for your reasoning. Don't base your argument around what anyone else gets, base it off of what YOU are worth.

 

Just observe my employees for a day and then don't do anything they do, we can't stand them, and I'm about the most laid back boss you'd come across in my field.

[Fatter than Joey]

One thing my old man said to me that has always stuck with me, with regard to managing people.

 

"You spend 90% of your time with 10% of the people, the sooner you realize just to fire that 10% the easier your job will be"

[don1481]

I've worked very hard to never burn any bridges in places I've worked, and it's definitely reaped dividends.

 

I don't know what you're talking about. Burning bridges is fun!

 

In all seriousness though, BtA is right. Torching bridges is not a good idea. As tempting as it may be sometimes to do so, no good comes from it.

[JimH5]

Nobody plans on being a CNA forever. It's a job that just screams "entry level", and "stepping stone". It's an essential job that has to get done, but it doesn't have to get done by someone who is making premium money, and being there for 3 years doesn't make you more valuable than someone working for 3 months.

 

You need to drop the idea that seniority equals higher pay in a job like that.

 

The whole "I'm doing this for the good of my coworkers" is a little transparent. They don't need you to be their self appointed agent. If anyone has a problem with the terms of the job, then go to the boss with the reasons why your performance merits more money.

 

Other than that, deal with it. Life's expensive, and if you want a better lot, make it for yourself.

[jaybird2001wi]

Well, apparently I got the attention of my immediate supervisor and he was essentially in agreement with me and was already in discussions with the Regional boss for quite some time over this issue and now I he wants me to sit down and chat with himself and the Regional boss on Monday and my immediate supervisor (whom is actually not only my boss, but also my friend) has continually sent me e-mails stating, "I am not in trouble" and that he wants me to call him.

The wage issue has been an issue for quite some time apparently and from what I gather, my e-mail may have been the e-mail that could force things to get done.

But I am still a bit scared obviously. I do have some bargaining power because of the following:

1) I am the ONLY staff member willing to work every weekend (Its mandatory that all staff must work every other weekend)

2) I can work any shift without a hitch and finding a person willing to work third shift every weekend is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

3) The reason they decided to offer a big signing bonus to new hires is the region has struggled majorly in finding ANYONE to work and most of the time, the new hires basically walk off the job within a week and never are seen or heard from again.

4) A year ago I was like the 7th most senior staff and the floodgates opened severely within the last few months and now I am the No. 2 most senior staff.

5) In relation to No. 1 and No. 2, I have never once complained about my excessive weekend hours (I work 40 hour weekends) and actually value it and relish it because somehow I love double shifts.

6) I don't have any black marks on my record from the State of Wisconsin in regards to my caregiver record.

7) In relation to No. 1 and No. 2, if I were to quit, there would be pretty big shoes to fill because the hours would be tough to fill.

8) I tried putting in my two week notice back in late June and my immediate supervisor spent an hour convincing me to stay and I am still with the company.

[TooLiveBrew]

Well, apparently I got the attention of my immediate supervisor and he was essentially in agreement with me and was already in discussions with the Regional boss for quite some time over this issue and now I he wants me to sit down and chat with himself and the Regional boss on Monday and my immediate supervisor (whom is actually not only my boss, but also my friend) has continually sent me e-mails stating, "I am not in trouble" and that he wants me to call him.

 

Glad to hear that you had a good feel for the situation. It sounds like so far, things are moving in a positive direction. Good luck in your discussions.

 

http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[bullox]

8) I tried putting in my two week notice back in late June and my immediate supervisor spent an hour convincing me to stay and I am still with the company.

If none of that convincing had anything to do with money, you got robbed. I hope you got a raise out of that.

 

[jaybird2001wi]

Well, I just had my meeting with the Milwaukee County Director of my company yesterday with my Manager present at the meeting. My Manager agrees with me 90 percent on the e-mail I sent him and apparently the Director completely missed the point of my e-mail about complaints of low wages with the hour long discussion we had yesterday morning.

He took my e-mail seriously and apparently thought I was going to quit at the end of the meeting asking me, "What can we do to make you happy and satisfied today?" as the Director completely had fear in his eyes. It would have been inappropriate to ask for a raise at that point, so I basically just sat there and said, "Okay, I 'understand' now," because he completely missed the point.

But anyhow, my Manager (immediate supervisor) will put in an official recommendation to the company requesting I get at least a 50 cent raise in addition to my annual review raise I will be receiving on my third year review in the next couple weeks (which could be anywhere between 20 cents for the lowest marks to 50 cents for the highest marks).

My Manager said my e-mail was a bit overzealous, but it basically sent the message to the Director on what could become a bigger issue within the next few months, and that my Manager basically stated this could expedite more fairness to veteran employees. Apparently my Manager called me a "hero" for standing up for the veteran employees.

[Fatter than Joey]

Congrats. I hope you are satisfied with this resolution.