So now that Cameron is signed, what are we going to get for all our pitching?

[JohnBriggs12]

Well said Tbadder. I might look to try to bolster the upper level arms supply with guys who at least project to bottom of order starters or setup relievers.

[TooLiveBrew]

That's exactly my point. I'd rather have a deep bullpen that a bench that's left to rot on the pine or be missuesd.

 

Huh - is your point is that since Yost is crappy, you want a deeper bullpen instead of bench? That's a tad odd, but I can understand it.

 

Somebody said we need a bench for double switches. Why? You really want to bring in craig counsel or gabe gross and take out potentially Hall or Hart or Hardy or weeks or Braun or Prince just so the pitcher's spot doesn't come up for a few more batters? That seems shortsighted to me. Set the lineup and let them play.

 

That 'somebody' would be me - and as mentioned, you need PHers, and guys to provide off days for the regulars. The game isn't played on paper, and sometimes things have to get mixed around - I can't pretend to be able to explain exactly how & when, but to think that having another good/solid player on the bench isn't useful is misguided, imo.

 

The fewer moving parts the better for Yost.

 

If nothing else, at least we can agree on one thing! http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[DrWood]

I really don't get it. Parra is a lefty that can throw a 96 mph fastball that moves, and someone compares **villanueva** to Santana? I guess they both have great changeups, that's a similarity. Villanueva's changeup is great, but Parra has more than his fastball, too. before 2007 the brewers limited Parra because he was recovering from injury. He pitched 133 innings last year and missed some time because of the broken thumb. 170-180 innings would be a reasonable limit for him. 170 innings would have placed him 40th in the NL last year. that's more than 4th and 5th pitchers generally put in. In other words, any inning limit won't really be a limit--he'd be sufficiently limited by being a 5th starter.

 

Parra can be a dominating pitcher, villanueva can be a fine middle-of-the-rotation starter. I don't get why anyone would want to hold back the dominating force for the merely-solid guy. I really don't get it. If Parra was 21, I might, but he's older than villy.

[rousieboy]

I am not so quick to agree here...
The way GM DM has been moving it seems that he wants a vet rotation (btw, unless Mota shows up in AZ and plays like A. Benitez part 2...he is gone...)

This is not my dream roster, it is what is in place...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, if Parra is good and the rest of the world (Cappy) sucks THEN he will get a shot at starting...this team has a window and it is going to start 2008 with vets...period...

have a nice day...EOD...Rouse

[brewmann04]

i think we see oce we get closer to spring training and teams realize that might need a starter then Doud will swoop in.

[kramnoj]

"Last year every Sunday we trotted out the B-team and I don't recall us doing too well on those Sunday games."

 

 

 

I have the Brewers going 15-12 on Sunday games. One thing to keep in mind is that the practice of sitting a player or three on Sunday, especially if the following Monday is an off day, isn't unusual. So if the Brewers aren't putting their best lineup out there, the other team may not be doing so either.

[dadofandrew]

That's a perfect example of why "I watch every game and I know" doesn't work.

 

 

 

Actually, the example noted is a favorite of mine. Many fans believe their favorite player should never have a day off, and they also have no idea if they are banged up and the team is not making that public. One look at Ripken's career stats in September will tell you how important it is for a player to be rested and at near full strength.

 

 

 

Heck, we still have people claiming Hart was "benched" in May, despite JS articles that talked about how his wrist was hurt, as many of us assumed at the time. Proof is a strange beast when folks ignore the facts.

[bullox]

"One look at Ripken's career stats in September will tell you how important it is for a player to be rested and at near full strength. "

 

Because we all know that one player's performance indicates how the rest of the entire world would perform.

[logan82]

dadofandrew wrote:

Heck, we still have people claiming Hart was "benched" in May, despite JS articles that talked about how his wrist was hurt, as many of us assumed at the time. Proof is a strange beast when folks ignore the facts.

We all konw he was benched because Yost was playing the hot hand with Mench.

[dadofandrew]

And the beat goes on.

[endaround]

Yes Hart was hurt in May, but the benching happened in April. But hey those facts don't line up with your story so you constantly ignore them.

[dadofandrew]

The injury happened in April, End.

 

 

 

I have spoken about this numerous times, but how 'bout we read some JS archives? Corey was unavailable in the Cubs extra-inning game that was just broadcast on Extra Innings, which was 4/21. One look at Hart's game log will give you all you need to know about when he got hurt and then became a part-time, basically platoon player, until he was healthy.

[Ennder]

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports Milwaukee Brewers OF Corey Hart (wrist), who had been sidelined since Saturday, April 21, tested his right wrist during early batting practice April 24 and was cleared to start in right field. X-rays showed no structural damage after the injury but Hart said he couldn't turn his wrist for a couple of days.

 

Corey's been our guy from last year on, the guy that we wanted to get at-bats. He did great last year, proved himself, and coming into Spring Training, our idea was for him to be in the [right field] mix and probably get the majority of at-bats."

That plan changed, according to Yost, when Kevin Mench started the season extremely hot. Just as Mench cooled, Hart sprained his right wrist running the bases, an ailment that only recently has subsided.

 

 

He started 10 of the teams first 16 games before the wrist injury so I think that was partially because of Mench's hot start (stupid Yost).

[dadofandrew]

Hart did sit a couple games in early April. Most of the talk has been about his time in May, however. I'll give you 2 games if you wish.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Gopher74]

Stetter is 27 years old and had a 4.49 era in AAA last year and has all of 5 major league innings in which he showed zero control. Color me unimpressed. He'll be 29 in 2009, lord help us if we're actually counting on him to be a big part of our 2009 bullpen. I'll say again, losing him is not a big deal.

Stetter is 26 years old right now first of all, second he had a 3.32 ERA overall last year.

 

And left handers HAVE been known to develop late. Baseball America had a short exurb on him pitching in winter ball, and how impressive he looked. His delivery is very tough to pickup, and I think he could be a very good left handed specialist down the road. It'd be nice to not have to pay Shouse 2 million dollars.

 

But yea, being 26 years old right now and talking about how he's going to be 29 next season are two very different things. Rich Hill was 27 when he broke out last year. I'm guessing there were some Cubs fans who were "unimpressed" who would have thought it "no big deal" to dump him. Not of course he's not going to ever have an impact like that most likely, but he's one of those guys who can fill a niche for the Brewers without costing 2 million dollars. Having those types of home grown guys is going to be huge for the Brewers as they try and spend wisely moving forward.

 

 

 

[Gopher74]

I am not so quick to agree here...

The way GM DM has been moving it seems that he wants a vet rotation (btw, unless Mota shows up in AZ and plays like A. Benitez part 2...he is gone...)

 

 

No, unless he shows up and he's absolutely TERRIBLE, he's staying. You don't trade for a guy who's owed 3.2 million dollars and then cut him. You could have just non-tendered Johnny Estrada. You don't waste money like that. Obviously Melvin thinks that Mota can do something, and the reason is obvious. He's got very good stuff, and he was exceptional in NY in 06. The chances that he's gone are VERY slim.

 

I really don't get it. Parra is a lefty that can throw a 96 mph fastball that moves, and someone compares **villanueva** to Santana?

They were pretty clear to compare the two situations, NOT the players. C'mon DrWood, you know what he was doing.

 

He even said that he's not trying to compare the two, simply the logic behind why each was in the bullpen, and how each team saw each pitcher as a future starter.

 

[endaround]

Hart did sit a couple games in early April. Most of the talk has been about his time in May, however. I'll give you 2 games if you wish.http://forum.brewerfan.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Could you be a little more dishonest Al? Everyone talks about the stupid decision Yost made to begin the year. Waiving it away by saying they really are saying something else and then arguing that just shows you really don't have any true point.

 

[rluzinski]

This is what happens when a poster is more concerned about proping up his own ego than having an honest debate.

[dadofandrew]

Actually End, since all the talk has been about May, most of the posters have simply been incorrect.

 

 

 

That said, I have nothing against "riding the hot bat", which is what Ned did late in the year as well with Dillon and Gross as well.

 

 

 

Russ, I think you might need some sleep. There's no doubt someone will be telling you privately you broke the rules of the forum, and I will not stoop to that level. Have a nice day.

[1992casey]

Let's end the bickering. There are several rule infractions in recent posts, but since nothing's quite strikeable (yet), I'm not going to try to sort out who did what.

 

I think we're getting into minutia here, anyway. But my memory--which might be as flawed as anyone's, says that Mench stole/earned some starts from a seemingly healthy Hart in April. In May, when Mench cooled and was still starting, there was complaining on this board at least partially due to the fact that we weren't entirely clear as to whether Corey was hurt or not.