Prince: "I'm not happy about (contract renewal)"

[MoneyballMan]

Dont pay him - no way. He wont be a Brewer forever thats for sure. Let him work on being the best and making the most and then trade him when his value is highest. After the season we will take Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberland, and Jose Tabata - we will be a better team with 3 guys making up 15 million than one guy makeing 20.

I agree. As much as I'd also hate to see him go, it's inevitable because we just will never be able to please Prince/Boras. And like it or not, we're just not a franchise that can support a $20m/year+ player, regardless of who it is. Unless revenue sharing suddenly looks more like the NFL (which it won't), then we're just going to need to accept that his stay here is limited. Enjoy him in a Brewers uniform while you can!!

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"Are you suggesting the Brewers owe him something or they should give him "pity pay" because his Dad ripped him off? That's ridiculous."

 

Nope.

 

I'm suggesting they try to address whatever issues may be souring Prince on the Brewers. He seemed awfully PO'ed over a few hundred thousand dollars. Ryan Howard got $900,000 before breaking the bank. Perhaps $900,000 this season would have placated him.

 

Big picture? A few hundred thousand dollars (which the team will get back 10-fold or greater, in the sale of Prince jerseys this year) shouldn't be an obstacle for a team willing to pay over $10 million to a clown like Suppan. $900,000 or even $1.2 million...whatever the cost of good will is, to Prince, is money well-spent, as opposed to the money wasted on screwballs like Turnbow, Kendall, Gagne and Suppan.

 

"So why set a precedent that is going to be hard to go back on with future kids?'

 

If "future kids" can set new franchise records for home runs, at age 23, then they deserve the same pay rate as Prince. (holding my breath for THAT to happen again, anytime soon). Otherwise, they haven't earned HIS pay scale.

 

"it was revealed at the owner's banquet on Friday night that ownership/Melvin had offered Prince a very substantial contract and that Boras turned it down."

 

I wonder a) how substantial was it? Was it Milwaukee-substantial (like the "substantial" offer made to Carlos Lee, which was trampled on by what he got elsewhere), or was it Boras-substantial? Unless they provide the financial details, I will remain dubious as to just how an attractive an offer it was.

 

I also wonder b) why our long-term deals, to retain All-Stars keep getting rejected. Now I understand that it takes 2, but whenever the Brewers make a big pitch to a Cordero, Fielder, Lee... their minds seem set (albeit heavily influenced by the "guidance" of the Scott Borases and Bean Stringfellows of the world) that there's no way in hell they're staying on a) a contender on-the-rise, b) for significant walking around money. Sheets took our cash, but then again, maybe it was partially because he's been paid so often for sitting on the DL that he felt a bit guilty. It just seems like free agents usually can't wait to bolt town, and that just seems unfair.

 

Then I wonder c) If Scott Boras even SHOWED the damned offer to Prince. What if Mark contacted Boras, and offers, say, 5 years @ $65,000,000. For a guy with a shade over 2 years in the bigs, that's not too shabby. And it's somewhat plausible, because that's in line with what Mark was willing to pay Carlos and CoCoCo, which ain't chintzy. But I can see Boras flat-out dismissing it, because he feels, whether he's right or wrong, that he can get more, elsewhere. Again, since he's so intimately intertwined with both the Red Sox and Yankees, and since neither of those teams has a slugging first baseman in his prime, I can see Boras rejecting ANYTHING we offer Prince, because he wants to "guide" the top young 1B in the game, to one of his 2 buddy teams. Hell, Mark could offer Boras 10 years, $200,000,000 and Boras could reject it, because he's waiting to at least hear what his 2 favorite teams may offer, in a few years. That's sickening, and it makes for a major flaw in the way baseball is managed. NO ONE, much less a scumbag like Boras, should be able to control where specific top talent, goes. But this monopoly is allowed to flourish.

 

And for my final wondering here: I wonder why the Mitchell Report, and/or Congress is not knocking on Scott Boras's door, to investigate why his players suddenly reach ridiculously-high career marks, just before free agency kicks in. Someday?...

[Fear The Chorizo]

If Fielder's seriously upset about not getting 200K more this season after turning down a marginal contract extension that would have paid him several million dollars, someone better buy that guy a calculator. This is nothing more than Boras being Boras - there's a reason why many owners and now even quite a few players don't want to deal with him.

[don1481]

I like the fact that it was divulged by Mark A. that he offered Prince a "substantial" contract and that it was turned down. The big question, though, is why didn't he divulge how much of a contract it was? Is that against the rules of the CBA? I think that if Boras is going to fight dirty and have his clients serve as his mouthpiece and/or reject contracts without even mentioning them to said clients, then the owners have every right to divulge what those offers that Boras isn't showing to his clientèle are.

 

Is it possible that the Brewers can do what the Yankees did with A-Rod and negotiate solely with Fielder, leaving Boras out on the street? I don't see why they wouldn't at least consider this route.

 

Don't get me wrong, though, I don't see Prince being a Brewer past, say, 31. Something about his build screams "not going to age well at 1B," so the Brewers would be wise to eventually deal him to an AL team for a haul of nice prospects, something along the lines of what Cabrera/Willis commanded from DET in the big trade.

 

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to signing Prince to a 5-6 year deal with a no-trade clause for the first 3-4 seasons.

[GenoSeligPrieb]

"I like the fact that it was divulged by Mark A. that he offered Prince a "substantial" contract and that it was turned down. The big question, though, is why didn't he divulge how much of a contract it was? Is that against the rules of the CBA? I think that if Boras is going to fight dirty and have his clients serve as his mouthpiece and/or reject contracts without even mentioning them to said clients, then the owners have every right to divulge what those offers that Boras isn't showing to his clientèle are. "

 

That's a good question, Don.

 

Maybe they CAN'T divulge the financial aspects of their deal, by rule...which is a shame, because we'd like to know why the offer was turned down. Again, I suspect it's because Boras just won't entertain ANY Brewer offer, so our options are limited.

 

I think the Players Union, heavily influenced by the agents, wouldn't want offers they turn down, to always become public, because it would most often make them look like greedy, unreasonable bloodsuckers, unfairly guiding certain top players to New York, Boston and to a lesser extent, the LA and Chicago teams.

 

Hell, extending my paranoid conspiracy theory here, I wouldn't be surprised at all if MLB was in on this surge...this wave of top talent AWAY from poorer teams to those with super-sized revenue streams. Oakland, Kansas City, Minnesota, Florida, Toronto, etc. are forced to surrender up homegrown All-Stars like Giambi, Delgado, Beckett, Damon, Beltran, Santana...as the talent shifts toward richer teams in bigger TV markets.

 

Unfortunately, if the Super Bowl taught us anything, it's that bigger TV markets can draw huge ratings = more money for the league, of course. And this is confirmed whenever I hear a Buster Olney or a Tony Kornheiser say "The league needs a competitive team in New York to make them legitimate!!"

[bigpeteanderson]

It seems that Prince is not very happy, The Brewers could offer him the moon and he wouldn't take it.

[adambr2]

Sheets took our cash, but then again, maybe it was partially because he's been paid so often for sitting on the DL that he felt a bit guilty.

---------------------------

 

At the time of his deal, Sheets had mostly a reliable and healthy past. That deal wasn't too "long-term", though, just buying out his arby years and I think 2 years of free agency. He'll still get a major multi-year deal if he stays healthy and has a good year.

[Oldcity]

It doesn't make sense for people to compare Prince's contract issues to Cordero or Lee, because unlike those two the Brewers are probably legitimately interested in signing him long-term. The last person they were legitimately interested in re-signing long-term was Ben Sheets, and they got him.

[JJHardy7]

I like the fact that it was divulged by Mark A. that he offered Prince a "substantial" contract and that it was turned down. The big question, though, is why didn't he divulge how much of a contract it was? Is that against the rules of the CBA? I think that if Boras is going to fight dirty and have his clients serve as his mouthpiece and/or reject contracts without even mentioning them to said clients, then the owners have every right to divulge what those offers that Boras isn't showing to his clientèle are.

 

Why would he do that? Mark A. has stated in the last week or so I believe that the Brewers intend on offering all the young players contracts, but they're going to refuse "announcing" that they have made offers when they are rejected. I think stating what the offer was would make no sense in my eyes. It's not like Prince is a rare Brewer right now -- they'll have Braun coming up next and making this information public is in the best interests of the Brewers. If Fielder wants millions now, he can have it. He wants millions now and long into the future and you can't have it both ways. The Brewers have a system in place and Howard won the ROY and MVP...Prince did not. It's clear the Brewers would pay him millions, but why should they if Prince isn't willing to give up a year or two of free agency?

[Oldcity]

It's clear the Brewers would pay him millions, but why should they if Prince isn't willing to give up a year or two of free agency?

This sentence sums up this entire situation.

 

[AJAY]

I just saw Prince Fielder hitting a homerun in a video game commercial that was aired on national TV. That's the first time in my life I have seen a Brewer player being shown in a video game commercial. I just hope the Brewers appreciate the marketability of this kid. Prince Fielder is the name and face that puts the Brewers on the map.

 

Players like this come along maybe once or twice in franchise history. You need to have some legends if you want your franchise to become part of the historical fabric of the sport.

 

Sign him.

[Oldcity]

Ajay, it isn't like they won't try. It takes two sides to sign a contract.

[don1481]

Why would he do that? Mark A. has stated in the last week or so I believe that the Brewers intend on offering all the young players contracts, but they're going to refuse "announcing" that they have made offers when they are rejected.... I think stating what the offer was would make no sense in my eyes.... It's clear the Brewers would pay him millions, but why should they if Prince isn't willing to give up a year or two of free agency?

1. Given Boras' track record, how do we even *know* that Prince was shown the Brewers' offer by Boras in the first place?

2. I think it would make perfect business sense for Mark A. to disclose the offer - either officially or have it "leaked" - so that Prince knows what the Brewers are indeed offering, especially if point #1 is true, which I strongly suspect is the case. It makes perfect business sense because it would show Prince that maybe his agent is not telling him the truth about what really is going on here.

3. How do we know what Prince himself is willing to accept in terms of a contract, both in terms of money and length? Again - if Boras refuses to tell Prince the truth about the contract offer, how does Prince necessarily have the opportunity to refuse said contract?

4. Mark A. did state that he wants to offer long-term contracts (see the JS articles from a week or so ago), but he has made a point of disclosing that Prince's long-term offer was already rejected (see JenksFan5's comment about what Powell said on-air). I see nothing wrong with dealing with Boras in as heavy-handed of a manner as necessary to embarass/shame Boras publicly while conveying to Prince how much the organization wants him long-term.

I think the Players Union, heavily influenced by the agents, wouldn't want offers they turn down, to always become public, because it would most often make them look like greedy, unreasonable bloodsuckers, unfairly guiding certain top players to New York, Boston and to a lesser extent, the LA and Chicago teams.

Geno, you might be onto something here; that's why I would love for this information to be "leaked" by "parties familiar with the situation." Imagine what the Regal One would be saying to Boras if it turned out that it was something like 5 yr/$75-80 million and Prince never knew about it.

 

 

Something along the lines of:

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2004/12/23/1103840083_1620.jpg

 

Would be the sum of it.

 

EDIT:

 

Ajay, it isn't like they won't try. It takes two sides to sign a contract.

Yes, it does take two sides to sign a contract. However, when one of those sides happens to be facilitated by Scott Boras, it could very well be that the Brewers are not going to get their point across to Prince, no matter how much they try to scream through the Boras Noise Filter that is in place to weed out legitimate offers from small market teams. Other tactics may need to be used.

[AdvantageSchneider]

I just saw Prince Fielder hitting a homerun in a video game commercial that was aired on national TV. That's the first time in my life I have seen a Brewer player being shown in a video game commercial. I just hope the Brewers appreciate the marketability of this kid. Prince Fielder is the name and face that puts the Brewers on the map.

 

Players like this come along maybe once or twice in franchise history. You need to have some legends if you want your franchise to become part of the historical fabric of the sport.

 

Sign him.

You know what would put the brewers on the map? Winning a playoff series or the World Series. I really don't care one iota about any brewer players being in a video game commerical or on a soap opera or any garbage like that. I want to see some October baseball. That's really all I care about.

 

The White Sox won the WS a few years ago. I don't recall them having any legends on their team, unless you count Jermaine Dye as a legend.

[clancyphile]

If Prince matches 2007, then the Brewers need to make an anonymous leak next offseason of a bank-breaking deal ($170 million over 10 years, including a $20 million signing bonus).

 

Let's see it get out there.

[Invader3K]

I just saw Prince Fielder hitting a homerun in a video game commercial that was aired on national TV. That's the first time in my life I have seen a Brewer player being shown in a video game commercial. I just hope the Brewers appreciate the marketability of this kid. Prince Fielder is the name and face that puts the Brewers on the map.

 

Players like this come along maybe once or twice in franchise history. You need to have some legends if you want your franchise to become part of the historical fabric of the sport.

 

Sign him.

AJAY, it sounds like they already offered him one contract this off-season. What do you propose they do? Put a gun to his head?

 

[JJHardy7]

1. Given Boras' track record, how do we even *know* that Prince was shown the Brewers' offer by Boras in the first place?

 

Why do we have to know? It's not like this is Prince's last year under the Brewers control.

 

2. I think it would make perfect business sense for Mark A. to disclose the offer - either officially or have it "leaked" - so that Prince knows what the Brewers are indeed offering, especially if point #1 is true, which I strongly suspect is the case. It makes perfect business sense because it would show Prince that maybe his agent is not telling him the truth about what really is going on here.

 

I don't think it makes any business sense -- we have other young players that will look at that offer and think it's too high or too low and that will change their expectations.

 

3. How do we know what Prince himself is willing to accept in terms of a contract, both in terms of money and length? Again - if Boras refuses to tell Prince the truth about the contract offer, how does Prince necessarily have the opportunity to refuse said contract?

 

I think this point is more of Prince vs. Boras than anything to do with the Brewers. That's up to Prince and his agent and the Brewers don't have to be a go between or get in the middle of this if you think Boras is lying to Prince. If Boras is lying to Prince, that's Prince's problem and not the Brewers.

 

4. Mark A. did state that he wants to offer long-term contracts (see the JS articles from a week or so ago), but he has made a point of disclosing that Prince's long-term offer was already rejected (see JenksFan5's comment about what Powell said on-air). I see nothing wrong with dealing with Boras in as heavy-handed of a manner as necessary to embarass/shame Boras publicly while conveying to Prince how much the organization wants him long-term.

 

I don't understand this point. The Brewers should try to embarass Boras? It seems that you have a problem more with Boras here than the Brewers and that's fine. I just don't think it makes sense to disclose the amounts or the terms given all the young talent in Milwaukee. It's similar to giving roses to a girl on the first date -- she's going to expect that or more as time goes forward. I think announcing the offer would embarass the Brewers organization because it would essentially be pitting Prince/Boras vs. Brewers and I think the media would run with that -- that's not the kind of press that endears a team to its current players or future free agents.

[Patrick425]

I was at Spring Training when this story broke, but I'd like to add my 2 cents anyways. It seems like Fielder is the kind of guy who holds grudges (look at his relationship with his dad). I seriously doubt that he will ever sign a long term contract with the Brewers.

 

Is it just a matter of time before a pre-arby guy like Fielder takes MLB to court claiming that they are not being payed fair market value. Of course, I'm not sure if an action like that would even make any sense. I'm sure someone will tell me if it doesn't. Isn't it basically what Curt Flood did? I'm assuming that a player would have to break his relationship with the players union before doing something like that.

[rluzinski]

Why are people pretending that Fielder is freaking out about this? He didn't like what he was paid last year and nothing happened. He doesn't like what he's getting paid this year and nothing will happen. If the Brewers pay him market value when he's a free agent, they'd have avery good chance of retaining his services, IMO.

 

Is it just a matter of time before a pre-arby guy like Fielder takes MLB to court claiming that they are not being payed fair market value.

 

He'll have to sue the players' union then, since they are the ones who agreed to the system.

[logan82]

rluzinski wrote:

If the Brewers pay him market value when he's a free agent, they'd have avery good chance of retaining his services, IMO.

I would agree with that. I think it will end up being Fielder wanting more years than we are willing to offer. That and the amount we end up paying Fielder could be enough to keep 2-3 players instead of just one.

[don1481]

Why do we have to know? It's not like this is Prince's last year under the Brewers control.

You're missing my point here: It is unknown whether or not Prince actually SAW said offer from the Brewers; Boras, for all anyone knows, rejected the offer outright without asking his client. We don't have to know anything; the point is that if Prince didn't see the offer then the Brewers should consider other, non-Boras ways of getting to Prince. It worked for A-Rod and the Yankees, right...?

 

I don't think it makes any business sense -- we have other young players that will look at that offer and think it's too high or too low and that will change their expectations.

I think it makes a ton of business sense. If teams can show agents such as Boras that they're not willing to deal with Boras yet are more than willing to engage the players directly, then Boras loses a large portion of his effectiveness - his ability to "filter" offers that he may consider to be "inferior" for reasons including "The player still has arby years before he's tied down," "the player plays for a small market team and won't get the exposure I want," and my favorite "If he's not even a FA, then I can't possibly create phantom bidders to jack up his price! Not fair!"

 

It's not collusion because it's not against the players. Boras would be rendered powerless. Yes, he'd still receive his cut of whatever Prince or whomever signed (see also: Rodriguez, Alex) but he'd basically be forced to watch on the sidelines. Teams would be able to - in theory - limit agents' effectiveness and agents that don't "play nice" will be relegated to riding the pine during actual negotiations.

I think this point is more of Prince vs. Boras than anything to do with the Brewers. That's up to Prince and his agent and the Brewers don't have to be a go between or get in the middle of this if you think Boras is lying to Prince. If Boras is lying to Prince, that's Prince's problem and not the Brewers.

It may be Prince's problem but it's also the Brewers' - and the rest of MLB's - problem. Would you be OK with Boras, in a few years, turning the Brewers upside down in a bidding war with themselves because Boras "leaked" a few false rumors about other teams bidding for Prince's services? I sure as heck would not be.

 

I don't understand this point. The Brewers should try to embarass Boras? It seems that you have a problem more with Boras here than the Brewers and that's fine. I just don't think it makes sense to disclose the amounts or the terms given all the young talent in Milwaukee. It's similar to giving roses to a girl on the first date -- she's going to expect that or more as time goes forward. I think announcing the offer would embarass the Brewers organization because it would essentially be pitting Prince/Boras vs. Brewers and I think the media would run with that -- that's not the kind of press that endears a team to its current players or future free agents.

Note the way I chose to say that the offers should be presented: As leaks. Not as Doug Melvin calling a press conference saying "Well... we offered Boras X amount over Y years but he immediately turned it down." That would absolutely be the wrong way to handle it. I do have a big problem with Boras - the most vile sports agent this side of Drew Rosenhaus - but it's not just because of the offers he gets; it's largely because of HOW he gets those offers. Phantom bidders? Lying to teams? Leaking false rumors to the media? It's high time that some team not named the Yankees stands up to him and renders him powerless.

[Invader3K]

Well, the guy can't live forever, at least.

[ozzybourne]

who cares--he is not brett favre. at this point does anyone care who is in a brewer uniform as long as we win? please -this is 2008--the players don't care about you. i say just win with whoever you have on the team, and then worry about next year.

 

don't fall in love with any of the players--WAKE UP CALL--they could give a rats ass about you.

[logan82]

I know Weeks got paid more than Fielder, but I don't think Weeks complained about his contract despite the fact he had to take a 20% cut in pay from last year. I believe he even signed his contract.

[danzig6767]

A few hundred thousand dollars (which the team will get back 10-fold or greater...

 

It just seems like free agents usually can't wait to bolt town, and that just seems unfair...

 

Then I wonder c) If Scott Boras even SHOWED the damned offer to Prince...

A few thoughts Geno

1. If you think Fielder will never stay here past his six seasons so he can sign in a bigger market, why should we give him 900,000 or 1.2 million this year even though it's above what most or all other teams would have given Prince at this time? If just he's destined to leave when he gets his chance, there is no reason to try and butter Prince up now by paying him more than than what's needed.

2. As for players above that you mentioned choosing not to take our money, i think each case should be evaluated on it's own merits. Lee was offered 4yrs/48 million, which obviously wasn't enough given what he signed for in Houston. Four years was the max that Melvin felt comfortable with giving Lee and i agree with him on that, no way in hell would i have given Lee six years and 100 million. In retrospect, i'm glad Lee didn't take our offer, it kept open LF for Braun to slide over to vs forcing him to stay at third and be an error machine. Plus, it allowed for Hart to play everyday last season instead of riding the pine quite a bit. I'm more than happy with our corner OF situation.

 

Cordero bolted over a few million dollars. We offered to make him the second highest paid closer in the game, 4 million over four season was enough for him to leave a franchise on the cusp to one in not as good shape. I certainly don't feel the Brewers gave Cordero some fake low ball offer just to appease fans, the offer was plenty fair. Can't comment on Prince since we have zero details.

3. Like you, i'm not a fan of Boras, no baseball fans like the guy. With that said, Prince is and should be the boss. He should be in charge of where he wants to spend his time playing baseball. Boras has a reputation, it's up to Fielder to let Boras know that he wants to always be informed of any contract offers, or he'll find another agent. I sure know that i'd demand that out of any agent i hired if i was a big time athlete. It would take me about 10 seconds to say, hide anything from me and i find out, you're fired.

Prince is a huge part of this franchise, i think it's extremely likely that both Melvin/Attansio talk the Fielder enough that if we made him a big contract offer, it would at some point come up in conversation and/or it would come out an offer was made. The odds strike me a very remote that the Brewers could make some very sizable offer long term offer that Boras first rejects without asking Prince, then on top of that Boras hides that offer completely and Prince manages for who know how long to never hear an offer even was made? The media never catches wind either that we made a large offer?

Agents no doubt can be slimy, Boras oozing it from every pore of his body. The players though hire that agent, not the other way around. Any big time athlete that wants to control his destiny over where he spends his career playing a sport can do so. If Prince reaches a point where he really want to stay in Milwaukee long term, he can instruct Boras to get a deal done for the most cash he can get. If instead Prince wants to go where the biggest contract offer is, he'll leave Milwaukee.

 

(pared back long quote --1992)